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Post by Menack on Sept 10, 2006 21:55:19 GMT -5
Feminism: good. Germaine Greer: bad. Feminism has only managed to make women with inferiority complex feel they are superior to men. That is, going from one wrong state to another. Not that I'm much of a fan of its counterpart, either. Actually, any movement ending with '-ism' is potentially dangerous. They look quite nice written in paper, but when taken to practice they inevitable fail.
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Post by {88Keys} on Sept 10, 2006 22:14:36 GMT -5
Menack- you're only saying that because you're a guy.
(Seriously though, I agree with you).
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Post by Menack on Sept 10, 2006 22:26:23 GMT -5
Of course you agree. I'm right!
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Post by Gouki on Sept 10, 2006 23:18:55 GMT -5
Er...because I'm very clueless...anyone care to explain to me who/what that is? I don't know much about her, but she's a British feminist. She wrote a book called The Female Eunuch (the only reason I've heard of it is because I've read the Adrian Mole diaries by Sue Townsend, and the book is mentioned a few times in the first diary Normally, I'm very particular about Australian's getting there dues. But, hell, you guys can keep her. We really don't want the cutie back.
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Post by Raskolnikov on Sept 10, 2006 23:46:42 GMT -5
Feminism: good. Germaine Greer: bad. Feminism has only managed to make women with inferiority complex feel they are superior to men. That is, going from one wrong state to another. Not that I'm much of a fan of its counterpart, either. Actually, any movement ending with '-ism' is potentially dangerous. They look quite nice written in paper, but when taken to practice they inevitable fail. Very true when people take any -ism too far it ends up in disaster.
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Post by Mac on Sept 11, 2006 1:08:10 GMT -5
Why is that? Have you always suspected that there's an enraged, violent psychopath lurking beneath my timid, gentle exterior? Absolutely. Is that Germaine Greer you're talking about? Pay her no attention, she feeds off of it. She's one of those people that has a taste for controversy and scandal. The Australian Ann Coulter? ^I suspected it. Nothing good can come from Feminism anyway. Amen!
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Post by Gideon on Sept 11, 2006 3:55:33 GMT -5
Normally, I'm very particular about Australian's getting there dues. But, hell, you guys can keep her. We really don't want the cutie back. Germaine Greer is Australian? I had no idea, I always assumed she was British! I suppose I look really stupid now. Mac, what led you to believe that there's a raging psychopath inside me? Some Australians I respect are Rolf Harris (I've always liked him) and Robert Stigwood, who was the manager of the Bee Gees from 1967-1981. And Steve, of course.
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Post by HailStorm on Sept 11, 2006 7:11:24 GMT -5
Menack, have you been reading the Daily Mail? Feminism is, in a nut shell, the beleif that women should have rights equal to men and should be considered equal to men. So in saying that nothing good can come of feminism you're saying that nothing good can come of women being equal to men. Now nothing good can come of extreme, radical, seperatist feminism (that is the small but disproportionately vocal and controversy-courting form of feminism that states that women are superior to men and that women and men should have seperate societies (or that men should be alltogether wiped out)). Otherwise feminists are the people who point out that women doing the same jobs as men get paid less, which is not fair. Feminists are the people who do research that finds that even though women are now more likely to work, they're still doing the majority of domestic chores (basically that men are not doing their fair share of domestic duties in most cases). Feminists are the people who point out the fact that if a young man is promiscuous he becomes a 'stud' and is congratulated, but a young woman who is promiscuous is a slag and gets shunned. Yes, there are some crazy nutball feminists out there, but they don't speak for most of us. It annoys me that they ruin feminism for women. The media has fully latched onto the idea of the 'crazy lesbian feminist who would castrate all men if they let here out of her straight jacket for long enough' and it's making women turn up their noses the moment somebody mentions feminism - they don't want to be seen as crazy. But like it or not, if you beleive that women deserve rights that are equal to men, equal pay for equal work and to be held to the same standards of behaviour then you're thinking in a feminist way. I don't know about you but I don't see what would be so bad about living in a society where my opinion is thought of as equal in validity as a man's. And feminism has had an effect other than making insecure women feel superior to men. For one thing we're allowed to vote. For another thing we can get work outside of domestic servitude, housekeeping and prostitution. And for another thing many more women are getting a decent education. If you know a woman who's ever gone to university, gotten a good job or voted in an election then she's had a life that's been improved by those crazy feminists - they've helped make it possible for her hard work to come to fruition. Life isn't perfect now, but it's better for women these days than it used to be. Even my mother agrees and she really rather liked the 70's and doesn't want to associate herselves with the feminists - she agrees they helped make the world better for women. And feminists are doing their darndest to stop things like systematic rape as part of warfare, female genital mutilation etc. - you know, the things that women who live in stable western countries are really glad aren't happening to them.
Sorry to go SO OT but you know nothing of the crunch.
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Post by Gideon on Sept 11, 2006 7:27:57 GMT -5
It might be a good idea if a feminist muppet was added to Sesame Street. It's still largely influential on young kids in America, at least.
Man, that programme was great.
And, just to add more about our old friend Steve, I believe there's an alternate reality where he's still alive. I also believe that in this reality, his work isn't finished. I believe in the afterlife, and I think ghosts can do amazing things if they so wish. Steve still has stuff to do.
I think he'd have got along well with both Andy and Maurice Gibb. Hopefully he's met them already.
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Post by adam on Sept 11, 2006 12:24:32 GMT -5
Aparently a HIV posative charecter was added to Sesame Street.
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Post by {88Keys} on Sept 11, 2006 12:59:10 GMT -5
I believe that was only in Africa (South Africa, maybe?), because AIDS is so rapant there. I don't think he or she has been introducted on the American version.
My problem with it is that feminists tend to make women who (gasp!) actually find fufillment in doing those things feel guilty, or like they're not living up to their full potential. (And by "those things" I mean staying home to take care of their families or doing housework, not prostitution. I doubt many women really find fulfillment in that). I don't have a problem with equal pay for equal work, but men and women are not equal. Or rather, they are not exactly the same. They have equal worth as human beings, but there are things that men can do that women can't and vice versa. Men and women are different. Some feminists seem to want to ignore that, to the point of ignoring all common sense. I do agree that it seems with any movement, religion, group, etc. those who are the most extreme often end up as the poster child for the whole group. People assume all feminists are like Germain Greer, all Christians are like Jimmy Swaggart, all Muslims are like Osama Bin Ladin, etc. One bad apple does spoil the bunch, I guess.
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Post by HailStorm on Sept 11, 2006 15:51:00 GMT -5
Yup it's only in South Africa. It's an interesting idea, it seems a bit awful at first but when you think about it, lots of kids there have been affected by HIV (will have it themselves, as their mother had it when they were born or will know somebody who has it) and it will hopefully help them feel a bit of extra support. I do think that some feminists don't seem to understand that some women would rather stay at home and actually like being all domestic and I agree that it's wrong to make a woman feel guilty for her choice. But people do make women feel guilty if they choose NOT to stay at home and be domestic - to choose career instead of childrearing, or to have both a career and rear a child. There's nothing you can really do that somebody, somewhere won't dissaprove and/or give you crap for it. So you may as well choose what you really want and get on with it and to hell with anybody who says you're 'not fulfilling your potential' or 'going against the nature of womanhood' or whatever else they say. The point of feminism is that you actually have a choice. You want to be a housewife? Go ahead. You don't want to be a housewife? Then get yourself an education and get into the sphere of work you're interested in. Some feminists being the operative word. Most men and women know that there are some things about us that aren't the same (eg. men tend to be physically stronger) and there are some jobs which the majority of women can't do. I don't think, for example, that women should be in the marines if they can't hack it, and can't meet the physical challenges. But if a woman is exceptionally strong, fit and resilient and can actually do it, then she should be allowed in, not excluded on the basis of her gender. If she can do it then let her. If she can't then that's too bad. But don't put a policy in place that forbids her from even applying.
Things like that drive me nuts. When you come across people like Fred Phelps for example, all you can do is be thankful that although he is making Christians look bad, at least that means that most Christians are nothing like him and are generally horrified by him and his ilk. It goes the same for every group. There's always somebody who's got to spoil it for everybody else and give any opposition a big stick to beat them with. If only there was some way to make sure that the sane, moderate message is the one that everybody thinks of. But alas the crazy ones tend to make more noise (and better news stories) it's a shame.
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Post by Gideon on Sept 11, 2006 15:57:04 GMT -5
But alas the crazy ones tend to make more noise (and better news stories) it's a shame. I think that these people are sane. And by that, I mean, I don't think they're crazy, because I see craziness (not mental illnesses, mind you) - but craziness - as a good thing. Remember Doc Brown? Crazy genius scientist, but a great guy. Screaming Lord Sutch (the guy who started the Raving Loony Party.) Undeniably very eccentric and quite crazy. These disreputable people that have been brought up are sane, in my opinion. If they were in fact crazy, I think they'd be better people. But unfortunately, they don't have that wonderful craziness, and those lovely eccentric quirks. They're sane.
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Post by {88Keys} on Sept 11, 2006 21:47:04 GMT -5
Gideon- Doc Brown wasn't a real person, so I don't think that really counts in the context of what we're talking about (real out-there people who discredit a group of people, not made up ones). I don't know Screaming Lord Sutch is, but if there really is a Raving Loony Party in Britain, I want to move there right now.
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Post by Menack on Sept 11, 2006 22:05:50 GMT -5
I had a mini WOT written, but accidentally erased it. darn. I'm too lazy to re-write it now, but will respond tommorrow.
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