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Post by Mac on May 8, 2004 2:55:47 GMT -5
LOL! I confuse HS and MC all the time. Btw...Alternate realities existing simultaneously is called superstring theory... ;D ok, tell us something we dont know.
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Post by HailStorm on May 8, 2004 9:05:40 GMT -5
You'd think we were some sort of collective with a hive mind or something. We are the Mods. You will be moderated. Resistance is futile.
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Post by MirrorCard on May 8, 2004 13:58:07 GMT -5
I've heard of string theory. was semi-confusing but i got the point of it. to make it work, about 5 new dimensions must be added to known existence, bringing the total to 11 or 12. current belief supports the existence of 8, I think it said.
*heh heh heh* has a nice ring to it.
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Post by prettyinpink12 on May 8, 2004 18:52:49 GMT -5
Now, Now children arent we veering off topic???
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Post by TheKat on May 11, 2004 0:12:07 GMT -5
Yea, maybe dimensions and theories about dimensions can be in another thread.
Back on topic, if we are analysing this "mirror" Marshall, I think if you really take in the song and give meaning to the lyrics it reveals a great load of stuff.....back on topic ;D
thekat
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Post by prettyinpink12 on May 11, 2004 1:27:41 GMT -5
Oh yeah, TheKat! I totally forgot, and left that aspect out!?! Silly me!
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Post by HailStorm on May 12, 2004 3:56:30 GMT -5
I'll tootle off and find the lyrics and see what I make of them in work today (sounded to me that they were pretty ambiguous though and it's more than likely that both sides could use them as supporting evidence). Anyway, it'll be an interesting excercise
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Post by HailStorm on May 12, 2004 12:36:45 GMT -5
This is what I wrote in work today (could probably do with a bit more work) Looking back on this I must advise you to take at least one screen break (it's beeeeg like a fat burger or maybe a truck) The obvious reccuring theme in this song is reflections. So let's think for a second: what is a reflection? In the context of the episode we can surmise that the reflections in question are the mirrored 'angle of incidence etc.' reflections rather than the sitting down and having a good think kind of reflections (eg. 'to reflect upon the matter'). So then, a reflection is an image of an object in a shiny surface. Apart from being reversed it is identical-looking to the object BUT it is not real - a reflection is an illusion. So this song is about appearances and illusionsLooking at the lyrics: "You're all about joy But that's not who you are There's a sadness in your heart Hidden deep inside."The subject (the person who the song is about) presents a happy, joyful image to the world (" you're all about joy") but it's just that: an image ( "But that's not who you are"" In reality they're unhappy ( "There's a sadness in your heart"" even though they refuse to admit this ("hidden deep inside"). Now this is something that it could be said Marshall does. As we've seen from episodes like Invisible and Chemistry, Mashall is prone to repressing negative emotions.
The next bit is obvious:
"I gave you my heart My laughter, my love"
The singer is infatuated with the subject: Corrine likes Marshall.
But then it gets more interesting:
"But you dimmed my radiance Your tears turned day to night"
The subject's misery has brought the singer down and in turn made them sad too. This is rather negative. It implies that the singer has been unable to make the subject truly happy - they haven't been able to touch them, to solve the underlying problem. In the context of C/M: Corrine won't make Marshall happy deep down and this will be disheartening, dissapointing and depressing for her. In trying to make him happy she will only upset herself.
The first line of the chorus is, in my opinion, the most powerful line of the song:
"Reflections of reflections"
If a reflection is an illusion, what is a reflection of a reflection? An illusion of an illusion? But they're multiple: reflections of reflections (please not the plural 's'). That denotes layers of images and illusion - this suggests confusion, disorientation and an inability to pinpoint the one thing that is real (ever stood between two mirrors for a really long time and watched your reflection spun out through infinity? Or gotten lost in a house of mirrors?).
The next line is also very interesting:
"My love reflects your joy"
The word 'joy' brings us back the the first two lines of the verse: "You're all about joy But that's not who you are"
The 'joy' is all an illusion, an act. So if the love reflects that, is the love on shaky ground in terms of its own reality? Does the singer only love the joyful part of the subject?
Next we have:
"But your pain is like a mirror"
What could that mean? Could it mean that the pain reflects itself onto other people (ie. the singer) or does it reflect the pain of others, forcing them to accept it? Could it mean that the pain goes on to create more reflections and images (that would tie in with "reflections of reflections") Or is it merely saying that the pain is cold, hard, brittle - like a mirror in that sense? Judging by the next line it's something negative.
"There's a light it will destroy"
(my emphasis) Now that could be foreshadowing. Notice the use of the very deffinite 'will' rather than more vague words like 'might' or 'may' that would have fit perfectly well? What would happen if Corrine's 'light' was destroyed? Seeing as 'light' in the context of the song is most likely to refer to happiness, positivity, goodness then my guess would be that if this is foreshadowing then sooner or later we're going to see either depressed Corrine or bad, angry, vengeful Corrine. Either way she could be headed for a dark place in her life (her and everybody else then *cough*stupidpearadyneruineverythingstupidbetrayingvaughnandstupidobsessivelucas*cough*)
The last line:
"Darkness leads to light..."
leaves us on a hopeful note. I think this is something that we should keep in mind throughout the next series: for there to be light, there must first be darkness (what's that sound? Oh, must be cheers from all the J/V fans... (I shall not forget the words of Jim, I shall keep the faith)) So whatever the darkness is, Corrine will come out the other side of it as a stronger, wiser person and she will have learned from it. In terms of C/M though, it's ambiguous - it doesn't really say either way. We'd have to know the rest of the song to know really. But if I had written that song, what comes after 'darkness leads to light' would be about seeing that it's not up to the singer to fix everything, moving on and not being reliant on somebody else's happiness to validate your self worth (little Alanis Morisette me ;D). But that's just how I would end it
(Ignoring the last part wher I go off on one) I would summarise the song in ters of C/M thus:
Marshall is unhappy and Corrine can't change that. This makes her confused and unhappy and she is unsure who the real Marshall is. this makes her vunerable to depression or, if you'll excuse the phrasing, being seduced by teh dark side. But in the end she'll be okay and will learn from her experience.
Cookies to the people who actually bothered to read that But wait! There's more!
Just out of interest, I've just looked up mirrors in my dream dictionary (mmm... symbolism) it said this (i'll highlight the somewhat relevant bits):
"Like water, mirrors symbolise the process of looking into the unconcious in order to discover who we really are. If you dream of looking into a mirror it suggests that you are concerned about your image - about what others think of you and how you'face' the world There may be anxiety over appearance, ageing, health, attitudes. Perhaps you are too anxious about your image and don't spend enough time reflecting on whom you are comfortable being. A mirror provides a reflection of ourselves, which is not necessarily a true representation of who we are inside. Rather, it symbolises what we would like to project onto others. If you dream of a mirror, your feelings within the dream will tell you whether or not eh projection is an accurate one.
Some of that fits Hemispheres really well, don't you think? (I would also, at this point, while on about dream symbolism, like to note that in a dream a kiss does not necessarily denote existing romance or romance to be but an acceptance of the person you are kissing or some aspects of them - interesting stuff, eh?)
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Post by MirrorCard on May 12, 2004 17:03:49 GMT -5
wow, HailStorm, that must have taken you forever! I am so impressed, seriously. you should probably save it.
I'm sorry, but I can't help but think, "duh." Funny how we don't get things until they are spelled out to us (like: you may be an assertive person but never realize it until an astrology reading says that you are).
so that line was purposely done. "hemispheres" not your normal filler episode.
I'm sorry, I have to say this: "Shadow moves like a body's twin, Water reflects, and illusions aren't the real thing." *eyes CC fans*
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Post by HailStorm on May 12, 2004 18:12:30 GMT -5
Aaaww... shucks (if only there a way to combine thos two smilies. maybe if we stuck them in a sack and played some Barry White? ). It didn't take that long to analyse the song in work and then it was mostly typing up in a hurry while I still had the energy (you'll spot a fair few typos and formatting errors ><) But I'm chuffed with it. It may appear on my site one day. Yup, mirrors are quite obvious, but not all dream symbols are - they make sense when you really think about them but on the surface they don't (like the dream kiss: you'd think it's romantic but actually it's just a symbol of acceptance). i also looked up reflections but it seemed less relevant. Yeah... I wonder who wrote those lyrics?
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Post by zsgirl on May 12, 2004 18:18:21 GMT -5
I'm guessing .... Carlos Lopes wrote it. Including the "I feel you near me" song.
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Post by TheKat on May 13, 2004 1:12:22 GMT -5
Hailstorm I loved your interpretation it was groovy ;D.
Ok, so now I am going to play devils advocate, just because I love this whole interpretating thing, and say....didn't the Marshall (the one on the other side of the mirror) give Corrine that piece to sing? Yes he sure did, so now that can take an interesting spin on things, this can be his way of expressing himself.
Corrine was able to sing the words but she wasn't able to put emotion into the song the way it was meant to be sung. That can totally change the perspective of the song. So now we're left with the slight point that these are the words he wanted her to hear from him; through her singing it. We now get a vision of what he wants her to know about him.
When asked about the lines Josie sung "I gave you my heart, my laughter, my love, but you dimmed my radiance," Corrine said "I'm torn between the fact that I love the guy, my boyfriend, but he bums me out, I'm conflicted." then mirror Z asked Marshall to sing "your tears turned days to niyight"( I put the little yight because thats how it sounded to me). Now how I translate that as turning happy times into something that is sad and dark.
So can we now interpret the song in a different light? I'm sure we can, though I don't think I have the will or time to present it as Hailstorm (which rocked) did, but I will little by little when I feel like doodling.
TheKat
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Post by prettyinpink12 on May 13, 2004 1:22:39 GMT -5
Geez Hail! You beat me to interpreting the song!!!! But that was exactly what I had written down myself!!!! (great minds DO think alike!) GOOD JOB HAIL! But The Kat is also right. Mirror Marshall did give Corrine the music to sing....that does give an interesting twist to everything.....
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Post by HailStorm on May 13, 2004 10:52:51 GMT -5
Indeed, but not on everything... *hides M/L banner* Interpreting lyrics is fun, no? Much more fun than interpreting poetry *shakes fist at Wordsworth* You have some very interesting points, at, and ones I didn't consider too. (I think I concentrated mostly on the lyrics at the expense of the context). If we go with the point of view that the mirror-world was created by Corrine's need to look at things from a different perspective we could say that anything that happens there is a sort of reflection of something inside her - the lyrics could be about her own feelings then but equally as Mirror Marshall did hand her those lyrics, they could be her understanding of how he [Marshall feels] or that flipped (that's the opposite of how Marshall feels? It seems a bit to complex and well thought out for that though). Oh! I've just had a rather exciting thought (you'll have to excule the garbledness of this, this is all off the top of my head and I haven't really thought it over at great length or depth yet) Instead of the mirror world being created by Corrine's subconcious to get her to grow, could it be from Marshall's subconcious? If he wanted Corrine to understand him? I need to think this over more carefully. That's a good point. And I can tie it in with my lyric interpretation: Remeber 'reflections of reflections' and 'my love reflects your joy' (the joy being unreal, an act)? Corrine's inability to put the proper emotions in could mean that being in the mirror world or thinking about the lyrics caused her to question her reality and question whether the feelings she had were real - that would also explain why she was a little off with normal Marshall at the the end of the episode.
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Post by prettyinpink12 on May 13, 2004 11:17:57 GMT -5
Hahaha, Hail. The M/L banner is just fine Oh yea... and I just finished doing a 10 page paper on the poem "Do not go gentle into that good night" for my Eng. class!!!!! I hate doing that!!!!!
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