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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 14, 2005 12:47:50 GMT -5
But if Josie's taking of the ball triggered Pearadyne's accident, then Victor would not have had the floating ball in the present (in Stopwatch), and taking the ball wouldnt have resulted in the school being condemned. Scott's correct. if Josie took the Floating Ball and that actually caused the explosion then he wouldn't have had a floaty ball in the present that we've been seeing for three seasons. the explosion probably occurred because someone miscalculated and the Floating Ball released too much energy, or Avenir calculated correctly ensuring whatever purpose he was after. it was either an unintended accident or a calculated manipulation.ok, half that (the bottom half) I didn't understand. Let me see if I got this correct: Josie knows that the floating chi gong ball must be created for Vaughn to be born (it can be implied from Fate but it is revealed that that is why Vic and Sarah are together in Inquiry). If Josie took the ball before it was created or before Victor could get it, Vaughn doesn't get born and reality is altered. So she waits until after. Her goal was most likely to prevent the strange occurances. Pearadyne's existance doesn't spawn the occurances, the explosion caused the occurances. Without the explosion, Pearadyne should have still be around. We never know what caused the malfunction at Pearadyne. My guess is that Josie caused it by taking the ball. Then, the timeline as she knows it would be restored when she goes back to the time after she took the ball from Pearadyne and put it back. you have to better understand how time travel actually works. to simplify (maybe): along any timeline there is a specific point that if that particular event does not occur then everything else that "rippled out" from that point ceases to be reality, "ripple effect" if you will. if you know and can find that certain moment then you can change the outcome, without it having to be a negative effect.and if Vaughn was supposed to be born he would have been. like Jim and the Janitor said "Everything happens for a reason. Other things don't happen for different reasons."plus it would be interesting if Josie didn't have either of her Qigongs, what Avenir or whoever would have done to ensure the Floating Ball's creation.so has anyone wondered how Victor retrieved the Floating Ball after the accident?
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Post by MirrorCard on Apr 14, 2005 13:24:12 GMT -5
But if Josie's taking of the ball triggered Pearadyne's accident, then Victor would not have had the floating ball in the present (in Stopwatch), and taking the ball wouldnt have resulted in the school being condemned. I also said that the next episode would most likely feature Josie returning the ball to when she took it (within seconds after). Josie's returning the ball wouldn't fix the problem of the Pearadyne exploding because the machine would have become too unstable. The best she could do is leave the ball for Victor to find. Then, the timeline as she knows it would be restored when she goes back to the time after she took the ball from Pearadyne and put it back. I don't know *shrugs*. I'm tired. you have to better understand how time travel actually works. because you're such an expert having actually time travelled and stuff... along any timeline there is a specific point that if that particular event does not occur then everything else that "rippled out" from that point ceases to be reality, "ripple effect" if you will. if you know and can find that certain moment then you can change the outcome, without it having to be a negative effect. This was a Star Trek episode (two actually). And then 3 seasons of another star trek series. I get how temperal incursions theoretically (as we don't know how time travel really works, it being highly paradoxial and tachyions and other time travel stuff are theoretical all by themselves) work. That's the thing. We don't know if he found it on the floor, perhaps where Josie returned it like I said and Au and Scott seemed to ignore that part of the sentence, or if it was still floating in its capsole, again put back in there by Josie. Basically, the timeline Josie, Josie2, and the Janitor saw would never exist after Josie puts the ball back and corrects the timeline they are in support of.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 14, 2005 20:59:08 GMT -5
I also said that the next episode would most likely feature Josie returning the ball to when she took it (within seconds after). Josie's returning the ball wouldn't fix the problem of the Pearadyne exploding because the machine would have become too unstable. The best she could do is leave the ball for Victor to find. I don't know *shrugs*. I'm tired. do you really think Josie would give Victor the ball even after everything since she was so adamant about him not having it? not sure I can see that ever happening, unless she's forced to give to him or it's given to him without her knowledge like before (Transference).because you're such an expert having actually time travelled and stuff... *eyes* you sure about that?This was a Star Trek episode (two actually). And then 3 seasons of another star trek series. I get how temperal incursions theoretically (as we don't know how time travel really works, it being highly paradoxial and tachyions and other time travel stuff are theoretical all by themselves) work. never seen those. but if they did, then they got lucky.That's the thing. We don't know if he found it on the floor, perhaps where Josie returned it like I said and Au and Scott seemed to ignore that part of the sentence, or if it was still floating in its capsole, again put back in there by Josie. Basically, the timeline Josie, Josie2, and the Janitor saw would never exist after Josie puts the ball back and corrects the timeline they are in support of. ignored what? I don't actually think Victor would have found the ball on the floor, the explosion wouldn't have depowered the ball. more likely it would have either still been within its container or floating somewhere not too far away or totally disintegrated.omg...you made me think of something. can't believe I didn't see this before. we always assumed it was an explosion, what if it was actually a massive release of energy. okay, think about Past and how Josie knew how to power the wormhole to get them home. she used Franklin's kite experiment to produce enough energy from lightning to open the wormhole. what if Victor's machine was actually used by someone like Avenir to produce enough energy to power some unknown entity. the explosion was never really an explosion but a massive release of energy in order to power the unknown entity. everyone just thought it was an explosion because that didn't know the true reason of what occurred. the massive release of energy had been planned the entire time. and Avenir or whoever was going to make absolutely sure that it would occur at all costs. and that's why the sky wormhole opened at the end of Inquiry, to get Josie and the ball and set things to the correct order.
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Post by Mac on Apr 14, 2005 21:07:22 GMT -5
Yeah, but the ruins of Pearadyne are totally wrecked. Looks like something went boom to me.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 14, 2005 21:28:51 GMT -5
well of course it would look like an explosion, unless you knew what really occurred. any massive release of energy is going to have that result of looking as if something exploded, even if it didn't. the difference in a massive release of energy and an explosion is that the massive release of energy was planned and supposed to happen, while an explosion is unexpected and not supposed to occur.
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Post by MirrorCard on Apr 15, 2005 1:44:21 GMT -5
do you really think Josie would give Victor the ball even after everything since she was so adamant about him not having it? To restore the timeline, she'd have no choice. She would have to find another time to take the ball away from Victor.
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Post by HailStorm on Apr 15, 2005 9:13:45 GMT -5
I thought an explosion was a massive release of energy. A massive, rapid release of energy.
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Post by Mac on Apr 15, 2005 9:50:42 GMT -5
well, an explosion in the sense of what we usually think of it as is specifically gas under pessure being released with rapid velocity. This couldve been some other energy release, like wormhole energy (see Tesseract)
BTW, did anybody else think that what Middleton did with the Tesseract Device in Tesseract is very similar to what Josie and the others did with the kite and the lightning in Past?
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 15, 2005 12:14:57 GMT -5
okay, in order to hopefully make this concept more clear:
explosion = accident
massive release of energy = planned/meant to happen
the incident with Victor's machine wasn't an explosion because it wasn't an accident. it was instead a massive release of energy exactly planned to every detail by Avenir or whoever. and unless you knew it wasn't an accident but actually on purpose you wouldn't suspect anything. just looks like another failed scientific experiment, when actually what was supposed to occur did, without the knowledge of anyone but the ones directly involved.
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Post by Mac on Apr 15, 2005 14:34:06 GMT -5
So then it was either an accident or on purpose, not an explosion or a release of energy, as an explosion is a form of energy release.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 15, 2005 20:25:28 GMT -5
explosion and massive release of energy are very similar but technically different. an explosion means that at some point control was lost. while massive release of energy means control was never lost.
okay, here's an example, should explain well enough: remember the bombs they used to test in the western US desert? if the bomb detonated before it was supposed to, it was an explosion, since somehow control had been lost. if the bomb detonated on schedule, it was a massive release of energy, and the test was a success.
but it's not really all that important which you call it, massive release of energy or explosion, as long as you know the difference.
the important issue with this is that the Pearadyne incident was no accident, it was premeditated and well planned for a specific purpose by Avenir and/or the other side.
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Post by MirrorCard on Apr 16, 2005 1:04:30 GMT -5
explosion = accident ... the incident with Victor's machine wasn't an explosion because it wasn't an accident. \ Doesn't have to be an accident to be an explosion. If you self destruct your ship by causing the warp core to explode, it's still a warp core explosion.
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Post by Mac on Apr 16, 2005 2:05:48 GMT -5
The explosion part is the rapid expansion of gas. Thats what sets an explosion apart from a release of energy.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 16, 2005 20:58:13 GMT -5
Doesn't have to be an accident to be an explosion. If you self destruct your ship by causing the warp core to explode, it's still a warp core explosion. well, I hope they got out of the way before it blew .
okay, that's bringing up another point, another aspect. that would be like if Victor had found out, maybe he did, what was happening, and then he sabotaged his machine to prevent their plans from being carried out. maybe that's why he was having such a fit when Sarah locked him in that room. and we thought there was a lot of secrets before.
now we've got three scenarios - accidental explosion, detailed planned massive release of energy, and sabotaged self-destructing explosion. want to try for a fourth?
just know, whatever you throw at me, I will find another angle and/or aspect. ;D *hehe* *this is fun* *nods*
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Post by HailStorm on Apr 17, 2005 11:25:14 GMT -5
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