Corrine's Worst Day

[sodoffbaldrick]

Well, she didn't take it out of his bag or anything. She took it off his desk. However, she was taking it out of his office. But that's what she should have gotten in trouble for, not for taking the paper.

Even if that is how it works at your schools, I still think it's wrong. Most of the time, at my schools, the teacher will let you take your assignments back and fix them, even if it means you will get points off for being late.

There are some exceptions, because sometimes taking the assignment back means you can cheat on it. But I don't see how they could have cheated on a paper.

You know, I've even walked into a classroom and taken a paper off a teacher's desk and fixed something on it and not gotten in trouble. But most of my teachers respected me, whereas Ms. Durst doesn't respect anyone.

You're suggesting that students should, without asking, be able to walk up to a teacher's desk and take a piece of their own work that has already been submitted for marking, and you expect us to take you seriously?

[MirrorCard]

rilian said:

menack said:

Really? Because that wall of text up there seems awfully similar to an episode analisis to me.

*shrug*

Then, how am I over-analyzing? Analyze my analysis.

eh, I'd really rather not. I'm not fond of this episode. I will anyway.

For the most part, your retelling of the episode, and depicting the characters's actions as out of character are bias to your side - you don't take into account anything about the characters's characters or the episode as a whole. But you said that you weren't actually analyzing the episode, which isn't correct since you are trying to prove that the episode is unfair to Corrine. You have to have been analyzing it to do that.

To get a feel for this episode, it was written by Lorianne T. Overton, wrote no other episodes; directed by David Warry-Smith, also directed Invisible and Ecosystems. So, David Smith has directed 2 episodes where Josie and Corrine's characters have been put against each other (pattern in the direction, so it isn't completely randomly assigned).

rilian said:

Corrine wakes up one day to Josie dancing to the music in her head-phones. Her clock says 6:30, but that's because Josie woke up and unplugged it at 6:30. It's actually 8:57 and class starts at 9:00. Josie is already ready for class and walks out the door, telling Corrine that she'd better hurry, or she'll be late. Josie-dirk unplugs Corrine's alarm-clock and then doesn't bother to wake her for school.

Not out of character. If I recall correctly, Josie didn't unplug Corrine's clock out of spite, but because she wanted to use the outlet. Selfishness such as that is in Josie's character. She also forgot to plug it back in, she didn't mean to leave it unplugged.
Josie also doesn't strike me as someone who would take an hour to get dressed. It is said that Josie doesn't get up early. She would probably take 2 minutes to get dressed and use the last minute to run to class. It's a uniform, it doesn't take that long to decide what to wear. Needless to say, since Josie can do it, she has no reason to believe that Corrine cannot do it either. Though, if the day wasn't important, Josie would probably just have opted to be late.
Whether or not Josie intended to wake up Corrine is a different matter completely. Josie isn't completely spiteful so there is no basis to conclude that.

rilian said:

...She rushes around the corner, where she literally runs into the principle, Ms. Durst, causing both of them to drop all their stuff. Ms. Durst gets mad at Corrine for running in the hallway and scolds her for being late to class. Corrine then explains why she is late and asks Ms. Durst if she could have a different room-mate or at least have more outlets added to their room, at which Ms. Durst yells, "Miss Baxter!" in an indignant voice. What, Corrine isn't allowed to have problems, or complain about them? It's all very reasonable, Corrine has done nothing wrong, and she has proposed a very reasonable solution to the problem which was not even her fault.

Your interpretation is shaky since it doesn't take into account the larger picture. As the episode goes on, you see that Principal Durst is not having the best of days either, which contributes to the "indignant" voice that she spoke to Corrine with. And, Corrine was rambling and wasting time that Corrine could have used to get to class and that Principal Durst could have used to simply be by herself. If someone crashed into me and then rambled about his/her day, if I wasn't in a good mood, I don't think I'd want to hear about it either.

rilian said:

When she walks in, Professor Zachary says, "You're late," in this awful tone.

Well, of course, she's late for a class that Prof Z has a pop quiz planned for. You teachers must have been pretty easy if they never took a tone with students who arrived late

rilian said:

...Everyone starts making comments about 'Miss Perfect' ruining her perfect attendance record. Everyone is being out-of-character mean to her.

I don't see how that is mean. That's just some friendly teasing, it isn't actually spiteful. Don't know what kind of high school you went to where the kids didn't play with each other.

rilian said:

Josie says, "Here, you can borrow one of mine," and hands Corrine a pencil with the name 'Corrine' on it. Corrine totally loses it and calls Josie a pencil thief. But she's totally justified ...

Everyone tells Corrine to calm down about the pencil. (I can relate to this scene. Someone stole a pencil from me once, and I didn't let it go. The teacher gave me a new pencil from her desk, but I was still mad. It was the principle of the thing.) ... Professor Zachary tells her to STFU or he'll "find an alternative place for her to do the quiz," ...

No, Corrine isn't justified. That is the type of thing you deal with after class, not during class when a quiz is being taken. Had you continued with your outburst, your teacher must have been quite lenient to not send you into the hallway or to the office with a referral for causing a disturbance during a quiz. Professor Z's actions were justified; Corrine overreacted.

rilian said:

Cut to Corrine sitting in the principle's office. ... "I'm surprised to see you in here." ... As if being late to class once means that she has suddenly turned into a bad seed. But then Ms. Durst says that she will let her off with a warning.

First, you'd be surprised - teachers are trained to look out for when a student may turn bad.
Like said above, Durst hasn't had the best of days as well. Her "lecture" is also observable in other episodes to other students.

rilian said:

So Corrine goes to Z's office to get the mid-term paper. As she comes out of the office, Ms. Durst sees her and asks what she's holding. Corrine tells her that it's a mid-term paper. "You stole a mid-term paper off your teacher's desk?" No, she did not steal it. It's HER paper. Corrine says that she took the paper because she wants to fix it. Vaughn turned it in and she didn't get to do her part. "Why didn't you do your part?" ...
It is not made clear whether the paper is past-due. If it is not past-due, then Corrine has every right to take her paper and finish it and then turn it in. If it is past-due, Corrine still isn't doing anything bad. If Z accepts late work, then the paper should just be considered late. However, she shouldn't do anything like that without Vaughn's permission.

There are so many things wrong with what you said. Agreeing with Gideon and Sodoff, it is stealing. The paper is turned in and becomes property of the teacher. The writing is your intellectual property, but the physical paper itself belongs to the teacher. You do not get it back - turning it in is saying "this assignment is complete, I'm making no further edits."
Second, if Z accepts late work, Vaughn would have to be consulted. And, Corrine didn't even bother to ask Z - that's very un-Corrine. And, it isn't just stealing her own work (which could be deemed ethically gray instead of totally unacceptable), she is also stealing Vaughn's work, which is definitely unacceptable.
Third, on your personal beliefs, most schools would probably consider what Corrine did an honor code violation - at the very least, she'd probably be summoned before the honor committee. But, like you said, Vaughn isn't the brightest bulb in the box, so Corrine most likely had to rewrite some of what Vaughn wrote, especially if Vaughn filled in stuff that Corrine was supposed to do. That means Corrine would be removing and altering content that Vaughn submitted, without Vaughn's permission. That is an honor code violation - she'd definitely be summoned before an honor committee. Corrine is lucky that Durst caught her when she did. It was just stealing, instead of something far worse.

rilian said:

You know, I've even walked into a classroom and taken a paper off a teacher's desk and fixed something on it and not gotten in trouble. But most of my teachers respected me, whereas Ms. Durst doesn't respect anyone.

Now that is an honor code violation - taking and altering a paper after it has been submitted without the teacher's pre-approval. It has nothing to do with respect, it is ethically unacceptable. You turned it in, saying your finished. You don't get to take it back without asking the teacher.
Looking at your age, if you are in college, keep in mind that while you may believe it is alright to take a paper off your professor's desk and modify it without telling your teacher first is alright, your professor and the honor committee will think otherwise. Remember that rule we were taught in elementary school: don't take things off the teacher's desk .

rilian said:

Even if that is how it works at your schools, I still think it's wrong. Most of the time, at my schools, the teacher will let you take your assignments back and fix them, even if it means you will get points off for being late.

There are some exceptions, because sometimes taking the assignment back means you can cheat on it. But I don't see how they could have cheated on a paper.

Well, if you asked permission from the teacher to take back the paper, then you're in the clear. Point is that Corrine didn't. And, if she was willing to accept the late penalties, that is not her decision to make - it is also up to Vaughn. The paper was submitted, so if Vaughn doesn't want the late penalties, Z keeps the paper. It's also a matter of that Corrine and Vaughn would have gotten more time to work on the paper without a reasonable excuse. That's not allowable, the paper was due and she forgot. She's lucky it was a partner assignment.

rilian said:

Then, she forgets her meeting with Vaughn again. WTF? How could she not remember?

Easily. All the stress to make things right, it is understandable how Corrine forgot.

rilian said:

Then, when she runs into Ms. Durst (which was totally avoidable!!), she apologizes and says she's late for class. For some unfathomable reason, Ms. Durst is less of a dirk today. This implies the false idea that if you are optimistic, other people will be less stupid.

Yes, if you are optimistic and present with a better attitude, people will respond to you in a better mannor. Anyone who works in retail can tell you that; anyone who knows anything about dealing with people knows that. You cannot claim it false, it has a high probability of success - example: Treat a moderator pessimistically, the greater chance you will be banned (which some have falsely believed otherwise); treat a moderator optimistically, we will like you. In fact, treating people good is a deterant to theft . What is your work experience?
And, you've missed half the story. Durst is less hostile to Corrine because Corrine opened the conversation in a less tense mannor, and even said something which Durst preceived as a joke. So, Durst wasn't randomly less hostile; she wasn't as hostile because Corrine was more optimistic.

rilian said:

Corrine asks for a pencil for the quiz. When Josie hands her Corrine's own pencil, saying, "Here, you can have one of mine," Corrine says, "Oh, hey, my pencil! You found it." The look on Josie's face is stupid. It seems to say that she doesn't really believe that it is Corrine's pencil.

Or maybe she was weirded-out by Corrine's reaction - it was rather weird .

rilian said:

Corrine tells Vaughn that she is going to miss their meeting and that he should just turn the paper in himself. This is stupid. She should be able to remember the meeting after having lived through the day 7 times. She should have remembered on the SECOND day.

On the idea of letting it go, Corrine settled with the idea that Vaughn is capable of turning in a decent, important paper. Perish the thought that Vaughn cannot be trusted to do good work .

rilian said:

Corrine says, "Yesterday wasn't so bad," and comes away with the lesson that when people are unfairly mean to you, you just have to take it and be nice to them; that if you're not, and it makes your day worse, it's your fault; that the mean people don't deserve any of the blame.

This is a freaking stupid episode. This show is full of stupid lessons like this one, where children are taught to take responsibility for things that aren't their fault; to allow adults to treat them unfairly; and to be polite to those adults, who are not polite to them at all. But this episode is by far the worst.

well, yes, that's life. Again, what is your work experience? This is another thing you should have picked up from working in Retail.
In your summarization, you left out the most important part - that Corrine is too focused on forcing everything to be right and not letting go of things that she cannot control. If people treat you unfairly, yes they are to blame. However, if you allow that to make your day worse and to corrode your attitude, that is up to you and you have only yourself to blame that you didn't want to just let it go.

You last paragraph is the most unfair. Like I said, you skipped the lesson of the show and warped it into a perverse interpretation. Unlike others, who think the episode was just poorly written, you actually think the episode's theme is flawd. It isn't - you've just missed critical plot analysis.

The idea of the episode is that Corrine, as a perfectionist, is unadaptive. While some scenes are unfair - throwing a 3 minute time to get dressed and get to class in combination with a quiz in first class at Corrine - the episode as a whole reflects that. It's not good to keep things bottled up and make you feel bad. It's not just in this episode, it is a reoccurring theme, and not just for Corrine.

Thank you for bolding your important points

[Rilian]

beppy71 said:

on my opinion if it was a bad lesson to kids they wouldn't broadcast it on a kids channel (lesson i saw was 'take the day as it comes'_as josie says)

The fact that it is aired on a children's channel doesn't mean that it will teach only good things. The channel is probably run by adults, and most adults would love it if children would just shut up and do what adults tell them to.

"Take the day as it comes," is a fine lesson. It's also called "going with the flow," which often works. But you have to take a stand on certain things. Corrine is treated horribly unfairly in this episode. She should not just take it silently. She should stand up for herself.

sodoffbaldrick said:

You're suggesting that students should, without asking, be able to walk up to a teacher's desk and take a piece of their own work that has already been submitted for marking, and you expect us to take you seriously?

You expect me to agree with something just because you assert it, and you expect me to take you seriously?

"A pice of their own work," you said. Why shouldn't they be allowed to take a piece of their own work? You have to explain why you think that is, not just assert it as true.

You appear to be laboring under the impression that teachers should have ultimate control. I do not labour under that impression. If you really do believe that, you should also explain why.

[MirrorCard]

rilian said:

sodoffbaldrick said:

You're suggesting that students should, without asking, be able to walk up to a teacher's desk and take a piece of their own work that has already been submitted for marking, and you expect us to take you seriously?

You expect me to agree with something just because you assert it, and you expect me to take you seriously?

"A pice of their own work," you said. Why shouldn't they be allowed to take a piece of their own work? You have to explain why you think that is, not just assert it as true.

You clearly did not read my post and you didn't read Sodoff's very well. He said "a piece of their own work that has already been submitted for marking". He did back it up: you already turned it in - that says "I am finished; there are no further edits."

As I said in my post, the writing is your intellectual property, but the physical paper belongs to the teacher after you turn it in. Taking it back and editing it, without the teacher's permission, will be seen my most professors, and most likely the honor committee, as an honor code violation. You are attempting to secretly get around the due date and modify a document you claimed to be finished (by turning it in). A student taking stuff off a teacher's desk without permission - you think that is alright? A teacher takes your yo-yo away from you; you think you're justified in taking it back from the teacher's desk when he/she isn't looking? Like I said in my above post: that rule we were taught in elementary school, don't take things off the teacher's desk.

rilian, what school do you go to?

[Rilian]

mirrorcard--

When did it show in the episode that Ms. Durst was having a bad day?

In my classes in high-school, people were rarely late. When they were, the teachers usually didn't say anything. If they did say anything, it would be to ask if they were ok. That's the kind of reaction I think would be appropriate from Z to Corrine.

"The paper is turned in and becomes property of the teacher."

I do not agree with that. No one ever communicated that to me in any of my high school.

"Now that is an honor code violation - taking and altering a paper after it has been submitted without the teacher's pre-approval. It has nothing to do with respect, it is ethically unacceptable. You turned it in, saying your finished. You don't get to take it back without asking the teacher."

It is not an honor code violation. The paper isn't due yet. Anyway, it's mine. I can take it back and take a 0 if I want. The "honor code" mentioned at some of my schools talked about plagarism and cheating on tests. That's all. It is not 'ethically unacceptable'. I had thought I was finished; I'm allowed to change my mind.

My 6th grade teacher (that was the year of the pencil incident) had boxes for us to put our assignments in. Even in-class assignments. She was really weird. But that's beside the point. It was perfectly acceptable for us to take our papers out of the boxes and work on them more, as long as we got them back in the box before the collection date, which was written on the board or on the box.

"No, Corrine isn't justified. ..."

Why? The best time to deal with an injustice is when it first happens, so that everyone knows what you are talking about and they can't run away.

"Professor Z's actions were justified"

He told her to calm down or he would find an alternative place for her to take the quiz. Then they immediately cut to her in the principle's office. Apparently, he didn't give her a chance to calm down.

"Vaughn would have to be consulted"

I said that. In the section you were replying to.

You know what's not fair? Corrine's grade being ruined because Josie unplugged her alarm-clock.

"It's also a matter of that Corrine and Vaughn would have gotten more time to work on the paper without a reasonable excuse. That's not allowable, the paper was due and she forgot."

They didn't say whether the paper was due.

Corrine forgot because she was in Durst's office, being accused of being a trouble-maker.

"Remember that rule we were taught in elementary school: don't take things off the teacher's desk."

No.

I didn't see Corrine as being any nicer the last time than she was the first time. I don't see why Ms. Durst reacted any differently. What caused her to change from, "You're late, you naughty imbicile!" to "You're late? You'd better hurry."?

"On the idea of letting it go, Corrine settled with the idea that Vaughn is capable of turning in a decent, important paper."

"Corrine is too focused on forcing everything to be right and not letting go of things that she cannot control."

And I don't think Corrine learned that lesson. Making it to the study session with Vaughn was something she could control, but simply gave up on.

About my "perverse interpretation": I have seen this episode many times. The first time I saw it, I just thought it was cute, like I have every other episode of Strange Days at Blake Holsey High. But it began to bother me a little more each time I saw it as I became aware of more and more ways in which Corrine was being treated unfairly or being stupid herself. I've seen the episode many times, watching with an open mind. I was watching the episode when I wrote my little essay about it. I don't think I jumped to conclusions. There might be more to the episode than what I said. In fact, I know there is. I only included the things that bothered me. I think I wrote on aspects of the show that other people missed.

I worked at Wendy's for 3 months. I quit because I was going away to college.

Oh, and, there's a very different social dynamic and class-room procedure in college than in elementary or high school. What was appropriate in the first two probably won't be appropriate in the last, though it depends on the individuals involved in all three. I've had college teachers who were fine with you taking work back from their desk if you had just thought of something to add or fix. If it were a math class, they might ask, "You didn't look in your book, did you?" They'd trust your answer.

That was my first college. The second one and the one I'm at now, I didn't/haven't encountered any teachers like that, though the fact that I'm taking different classes affects it.

I think the main reason it's different in college is that you're supposed to come to class with your work finished. In elementary and high-school, you do some work in class.

But Corrine's and Vaughn's assignment wasn't being done in class, but it was being done at school, because they live at school. Everything is more confusing when you live at school. (That would be why I don't live in a dorm anymore. > It made me fail all my classes... not that that was the only reason.)

mirrorcard said:

rilian said:

You expect me to agree with something just because you assert it, and you expect me to take you seriously?

"A pice of their own work," you said. Why shouldn't they be allowed to take a piece of their own work? You have to explain why you think that is, not just assert it as true.

You clearly did not read my post and you didn't read Sodoff's very well. He said "a piece of their own work that has already been submitted for marking". He did back it up: you already turned it in - that says "I am finished; there are no further edits."

As I said in my post, the writing is your intellectual property, but the physical paper belongs to the teacher after you turn it in. Taking it back and editing it, without the teacher's permission, will be seen my most professors, and most likely the honor committee, as an honor code violation. You are attempting to secretly get around the due date and modify a document you claimed to be finished (by turning it in). A student taking stuff off a teacher's desk without permission - you think that is alright? A teacher takes your yo-yo away from you; you think you're justified in taking it back from the teacher's desk when he/she isn't looking? Like I said in my above post: that rule we were taught in elementary school, don't take things off the teacher's desk.

rilian, what school do you go to?

Turning the paper in says, "I'm finished," but I can change my mind. Turning the paper in does not say, "This is your property now," because I expect to get that paper returned to me.

I didn't say I took papers when the teacher wasn't looking.

It's totally wrong for teachers or anyone else to steal yo-yo's or cokes or anything from a student. Stealing is wrong. Taking the paper isn't stealing because it's yours, not the teacher's.

I hadn't got to your post yet.

I go to UALR.

[erika]

rilian said:

My 6th grade teacher (that was the year of the pencil incident) had boxes for us to put our assignments in. Even in-class assignments. She was really weird. But that's beside the point. It was perfectly acceptable for us to take our papers out of the boxes and work on them more, as long as we got them back in the box before the collection date, which was written on the board or on the box.

uh, yeah before the due date, not after.

rilian said:

He told her to calm down or he would find an alternative place for her to take the quiz. Then they immediately cut to her in the principle's office. Apparently, he didn't give her a chance to calm down.

and apparently you can't conclude the fact that maybe she just didn't calm down.

rilian said:

They didn't say whether the paper was due.

It was implied. If it wasn't due Corrine wouldn't have been worrying so much about it, since she'd still have time to do her part in the assignment.

rilian said:

Remember that rule we were taught in elementary school: don't take things off the teacher's desk.

No.

well if you had the least bit of respect for others, this should be a no brainer. you just don't take things off the teacher's desk, or any one's desk for that matter, even if that thing you took was yours. I mean, the least you could do is ask, or tell them, not just take.

rilian said:

Oh, and, there's a very different social dynamic and class-room procedure in college than in elementary or high school. What was appropriate in the first two probably won't be appropriate in the last, though it depends on the individuals involved in all three. I've had college teachers who were fine with you taking work back from their desk if you had just thought of something to add or fix. If it were a math class, they might ask, "You didn't look in your book, did you?" They'd trust your answer.

I bet "taking work back" actually means asking to take it back. I'm sure they don't just let you take it without them knowing. I mean, if you were in the teacher's position, and a student of yours took their assignment off your desk without you knowing, how would you feel? It's not really about the assignment anymore, but more about the student's inability to show respect or courtesy to you.

rilian said:

I think the main reason it's different in college is that you're supposed to come to class with your work finished. In elementary and high-school, you do some work in class.

But Corrine's and Vaughn's assignment wasn't being done in class, but it was being done at school, because they live at school. Everything is more confusing when you live at school. (That would be why I don't live in a dorm anymore. > It made me fail all my classes... not that that was the only reason.)

wrong. you can't prove it, what you might find to be confusing, others may not.

[Gideon]

rilian said:

It's totally wrong for teachers or anyone else to steal yo-yo's or cokes or anything from a student. Stealing is wrong. Taking the paper isn't stealing because it's yours, not the teacher's.

I have to disagree here. I agree that it would be wrong for a teacher to actually steal something from a student, but it must be said that when teachers take something from students, they are usually merely confiscating the item and intending to give it back to the student later.

For example, I have, on some occasions, seen teachers confiscate mobile phones from students after they've been playing with them during the lesson. Usually, the teacher will ask them several times to put the phone away first, and after he/she has been ignored several times by the student, the teacher then confiscates the phone, and tell them they can come to them at lunchtime, or at the end of the day, and get it back. I feel that this is fair, since the student is in the wrong for playing about with a phone in the lesson in the first place. If a student is playing with something in a lesson, that they are not really supposed to have out in the classroom, then the teacher is quite justified in confiscating it. If they actually stole the item, then that would be wrong, but since they do intend to give the item back, that's not stealing.

mirrorcard said:

Well, of course, she's late for a class that Prof Z has a pop quiz planned for. You teachers must have been pretty easy if they never took a tone with students who arrived late

I was actually a little surprised with Z's reaction to Corinne being late. Vaughn was late for class in Invisible, and I didn't think that Z sounded too annoyed with him. All he did was call out, "Nice of you to join us, Vaughn!" and when Vaughn asked if he was late, Z told him, "Very" and asked him to take a seat. He was acknowledging the fact that Vaughn had arrived very late, and made it clear to Vaughn that it wasn't something he was going to overlook, but I don't think he sounded annoyed with him, which is something he did with Corinne, something which seems slightly unfair to me, as, since Corinne was hurrying to class, and since the pop quiz hadn't even started yet, I don't think Corinne can have been more than about five minutes late for class, whereas when Z says, "Very" to Vaughn in Invisible, it could mean that Vaughn was around 10-15 minutes late, or even more - the lesson definitely seemed to be in full swing when Vaughn came in.

But maybe Z's different reactions can be explained by the fact that he expects better of Corinne, who has always been exceptionally well behaved, than Vaughn, who isn't such a determined student, and has probably bent the rules a few times. I'm not saying that Vaughn is a badly behaved student - on the contrary, since his father has such strong connections with the school, I'd expect him to try to behave well - but it also seems to me that he's not afraid of going slightly against the rules - such as being late for class, and, as we saw in Magnet, not bothering to do an assignment that was worth ten percent of his grade. Sometimes, when a student who does not have a reputation for being spectacularly behaved, goes against the rules in a small way - such as being late for class, which is very mild - the teacher will be more inclined to go easy on them because they're happy that they didn't do something more serious. Whereas, when a student with a reputation for being perfect breaks a small rule, the teacher can sometimes be more angry with them than they should, because they're disappointed in them, and don't expect that kind of behaviour from the goody-two-shoes.

[HailStorm]

I'll read this thread thoroughly later. (possibly generating my own WOT)

However I will say that the original poster seems to have missed the actual point of the episode, the actual lesson. The whole point of Thursday is that Corrine blows the relatively minor problems in her day out of proportion that leads to even more problems (if she had reacted calmly to being late, she wouldn't have locked herself out of her room, so would have been less late, would be less likely to be snarky to Z and get herself sent to the principal's office, would then have not been so occupied with sulking that she'd forget to meet Vaughn, would have had some imput in the paper and wouldn't have been compelled to nick it back to 'fix' it, wouldn't have gotten into even more trouble etc.) The lesson in Thursday is to not to let little things get you down, to see the big picture and not get bogged down nit-picking minor details - Corrine is being too much of a perfectionist at that point. Was it unfair that Josie unplugged her alarm? Yes, it was pretty thoughtless, but Corrine did need to learn that being late for class once is NOT the end of the world and that bad days are innevitable and that trying to force things to go your way will only really give you a headache. If a person doesn't learn to roll with the punches, to take the good with the bad then they're always going to be dissatisfied and probably friendless (people aren't perfect and if you're always flying off the handle at them for minor problems then they will lose patience with you quickly)

I think the problem with Corrine taking back her paper wasn't that she did it, it was HOW she did it. If she had talked to Vaughn and explained to him that she'd like some imput as she feels she has something to give to improve it, then asked the teacher if she could have it back to make a few ammendments, chances are that they would have let her. But because she acted sneakily - and by that I mean the way she slipped into the room when nobody was watching, tried to tiptoe away and acted guilty when she was caught - she was treated with suspicion. If you act guiltily it's natural that people think you're guilty of something. If you're seen sneaking out of a teacher's room with a paper, a person will assume that you have no right to be there, taking the paper.
And if students were allowed to sneak in and out of teacher's offices and rifle through the papers when the whim occurred to them then there's no guarantee that somebody won't be tempted to cheat or be malicious and sabotage somebody's work. Once a paper is given to a teacher and they've put it away safely to mark it become's the teacher's responsibility to keep safe and secure until they hand it back to the student. Part of that responsibility is not letting other students mess with it. I don't know what school you went to but when I was in highschool lots of people would have taken glee from sabotaging the papers of people they didn't like, or nicking the whole lot and dropping them out of a high window just because it would cause a lot of chaos.
I think students should be allowed to ask for their work back if they want to make some changes, and the teacher should give it back at their discretion, but students should not be allowed to waltz into the teacher's room whenever they like, go through the papers until they find their own and take it away without an explanation (or a please&thankyou) I don't know about you but I'd hate the idea of unauthorised people shuffling through my work.

[sodoffbaldrick]

"A piece of their own work," you said. Why shouldn't they be allowed to take a piece of their own work? You have to explain why you think that is, not just assert it as true.

As MC has pointed out, I did explain. If you want another explanation, though, I can give you one.

When a piece of work is given to the teacher, not only does it become the property of the school, it also becomes the school's responsibility. That responsibility will, at least at first, fall on the teacher. If the work goes missing before it is returned to the student or officially passed on to be checked by another teacher, it is the teacher who will get the blame. For this reason, it is important that the teacher knows where the work is. What if a student takes a piece of their own work from the teacher's desk but doesn't own up to it when asked? What if a student takes a piece of their own work before the due date, and sneaks it back into the pile after the due date has passed but before the teacher has noticed it has gone missing from the pile in the first place? Apart from that, if students are allowed to walk up to a teacher's desk and take their work back without looking, the teacher has no way of ensuring that it actually is the student's own work that the student is taking back, and not the work of another student.

You appear to be laboring under the impression that teachers should have ultimate control. I do not labour under that impression. If you really do believe that, you should also explain why.

I do not think that teachers should be able to do anything, but they are the people in authority. It is their job to educate their students and help them prepare for life after they leave school. Part of that means setting down rules to make things fair for everyone and keep the system running smoothly.

"The paper is turned in and becomes property of the teacher."

I do not agree with that. No one ever communicated that to me in any of my high school.

Did anyone ever communicate the opposite? After reading what you've already said about you school, I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the case.

You know what's not fair? Corrine's grade being ruined because Josie unplugged her alarm-clock.

No, it isn't, but things like that happen. Would you like teachers to take into account every little problem that a student tells them about, with no proof that said student isn't making it up? When students turn up late in the morning, not being woken up by the alarm clock is a common excuse.

Turning the paper in says, "I'm finished," but I can change my mind. Turning the paper in does not say, "This is your property now," because I expect to get that paper returned to me.

A teacher is under no obligation to return any of your work, as long as keeping it does not violate school policy or instructions from their superiors.

I didn't say I took papers when the teacher wasn't looking

You did, however, support Corrine's decision to do so.

It's totally wrong for teachers or anyone else to steal yo-yo's or cokes or anything from a student. Stealing is wrong.

You're absolutely right. It is wrong to steal. That's why, when smart teachers confiscate something, they don't take it off the student. Instead, the student is told to give it to them. The student can disobey, but they will be punished accordingly.

Taking the paper isn't stealing because it's yours, not the teacher's.

From the time you submit your work to the time you are given it back, it is the property of the school.

[MirrorCard]

I have read the posts but am not making a full reply yet. I would like to address this first:

rilian said:

"Now that is an honor code violation - taking and altering a paper after it has been submitted without the teacher's pre-approval. It has nothing to do with respect, it is ethically unacceptable. You turned it in, saying your finished. You don't get to take it back without asking the teacher."

It is not an honor code violation. The paper isn't due yet. Anyway, it's mine. I can take it back and take a 0 if I want. The "honor code" mentioned at some of my schools talked about plagarism and cheating on tests. That's all. It is not 'ethically unacceptable'. I had thought I was finished; I'm allowed to change my mind.

The honor code extends to other things besides plagarism and cheating. It is also a honor code violation to cite a source incorrectly (to list the wrong year of publication or page number, intentionally), to make up a source cite (usually, because you didn't use the required amount of sources that the professor wanted), to incorrectly copy a quote (changing what someone says and then giving him/her credit for it), or giving yourself an advantage over other students. However, to take a paper, without prior notification, from the teachers desk is trying to get around the due date will be looked at as cheating, and is giving ypourself an anauthorized time extension which is giving you an advantage over other students - both bring up the honor code.

Maybe the honor code at George Mason University (where I attend) is a lot more strict than other places. I thought it was universally accepted among all colleges and schools.

[{88Keys}]

Wow...this whole thread is just...wow...I think maybe we have a troll, albeit one with good grammar. It seems to me you came here with a post that you knew would stir up controversy and you just like to argue for arguements sake. I don't think I could even begin to respond to all this; not to mention that MirrorCard pretty much said everything I wanted to say. Just a few of things-

Rilian, you seem very intent that everything that happened to Corinne was Josie's fault, because she forgot to plug the alarm clock back in. I think part of the point the episode is trying to make (and the part you're missing) is that you can't blame other people for all your problems. Yes, what Josie did was inconsiderate. But Corinne still has to take responsibility for how she reacts to it, and how she acts during the rest of the day. You also have to understand the character of Corinne- she's very perfectionistic, and if things don't go exactly as she has planned, she can't handle it. That's what this episode was for her, a lesson in "going with the flow" as you put it. It was not right for her to blow up at Josie in the middle of a quiz and act like it is her fault that everything went wrong.

Cut to Corrine sitting in the principle's office. ... "I'm surprised to see you in here." ... As if being late to class once means that she has suddenly turned into a bad seed.

Did she say that? No. She just said "I'm suprised to see you here." It's pretty obvious if you've watched the show any at all that Corinne does not get in trouble often.

It's totally wrong for teachers or anyone else to steal yo-yo's or cokes or anything from a student. Stealing is wrong.

Teachers have every right to confiscate items that are causing a disturbance in their classroom. When you're in class, you have to obey the rules of the school and of the teacher's classroom. I'm stunned that you have apparently gone to school all these years without realizing that. We're you raised in California or something?

One other thing I don't think anyone else has mentioned:

If it is not past-due, then Corrine has every right to take her paper and finish it and then turn it in. If it is past-due, Corrine still isn't doing anything bad. If Z accepts late work, then the paper should just be considered late. However, she shouldn't do anything like that without Vaughn's permission.

Contradiction- if it's her paper, then she shouldn't have to ask Vaughn's permission.

Finally, this:

You appear to be laboring under the impression that teachers should have ultimate control. I do not labour under that impression. If you really do believe that, you should also explain why.

Because they are the teacher, and they are in authority. Period. School is not a democracy. If you don't understand that, well...it doesn't sound like you went to a very good school.

This is a freaking stupid episode. This show is full of stupid lessons like this one, where children are taught to take responsibility for things that aren't their fault; to allow adults to treat them unfairly; and to be polite to those adults, who are not polite to them at all.

A) If you think the show is so stupid, why are you watching it and posting on a message board devoted to it?
B) Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions, no matter what others have done to them. This has been kind of an underlying theme of the series, and that particular lesson has been in several episodes. (Genome, Technology, Conclusions).
C) When does the show allow adults to treat children unfairly? Pretty much the only adults on the show are the teachers and the parents, and they are both in authority over the students. Like I said, it's not a democracy. The teachers and parents having authority and control is perfectly fair. Students and teachers are not equals. Besides that, throughout the show we've seen the teachers and Durst being pretty reasonable and fair to the students in their capacity as educators. The only big exception I can think of is Chirality, and those were kind of extenuating circumstances. And they were rectified in the end.

D)Just because someone is not polite to you doesn't mean you should automatically be rude back to them. Judging by the things you've said in your post, it doesn't sound like you went to a very good school or that you were taught much respect for authority.

[Gideon]

88keys said:

A) If you think the show is so stupid, why are you watching it and posting on a message board devoted to it?

I think it's only this episode that Rilian thinks is stupid, not the show itself.

88keys said:

Wow...this whole thread is just...wow...I think maybe we have a troll, albeit one with good grammar. It seems to me you came here with a post that you knew would stir up controversy and you just like to argue for arguements sake.

I have to disagree here. Although some of Rilian's posts have been heated, I personally don't think there's any evidence that suggests he/she is a troll. I think Rilian just feels strongly that he/she is right about this episodes, and keeps challenging others who have posted in this thread in order to articulate his/her views. But I don't think he/she is purposely trying to cause trouble.

If we look at it from Rilian's point of view, we can sort of understand his/her behaviour. He/she is a relatively new member. He/she doesn't know any of us well yet, and in the first thread they've started, people have basically told him/her that their opinions about the episode are wrong. Don't get me wrong, I think the people who have disagreed with Rilian have made excellent, valid points. But where the troll area is concerned, I think Rilian should be given the benefit of the doubt. To me, his/her actions are understandable.

[{88Keys}]

OK, that is a fair point. And I have modified my post a bit. But it seems like there was a fair amount of venom in that first post (not at us, at the show), and to come to a forum for the first time and make a post like that seems fishy to me. But I guess we all need to vent now and then.

[Gideon]

I think Rilian just really, really hates this particular episode. Not necessarily the show itself. I agree, his/her message was a little strong, and I can see why you thought it odd, but, like I said, I don't think there's anything to suggest that Rilian is a troll.

Oh, and by the way, Rilian, did you get your name from Prince Rilian from the book The Silver Chair?

[{88Keys}]

Oh, and by the way, Rilian, did you get your name from Prince Rilian from the book The Silver Chair?

Yeah, I was going to ask that too. Because it rocks.