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Post by Islander on Sept 11, 2006 12:10:51 GMT -5
Wow. Where did this thread spring up from? It's yonks since we've had such vast walls of text in one thread . Anywho, there are a few points I want to make. I'd like to make more, but I haven't got the time... Firstly, I'd agree with 88Keys - people, this looks like a troll to me. Actually, not quite a troll, because he/she certainly has a good grasp of English. Maybe more of a gnome... Onto quotes: In my classes in high-school, people were rarely late. When they were, the teachers usually didn't say anything. If they did say anything, it would be to ask if they were ok. That's the kind of reaction I think would be appropriate from Z to Corrine. Well, then I'm sorry, but your school is appalling. What, pray tell, is the point in deadlines if there are no consequences for overshooting them? Yeah, sure, there will sometimes be reasons when it's unavoidable, and then (so long as you usually so stick to the deadlines) I'd certainly expect a teacher to be understanding, but on the whole, there should be zero-tolerance. I mean heck, to be quite frank, I'd put most, if not all, problems in schools down to a lack of zero-tolerance. "The paper is turned in and becomes property of the teacher." I do not agree with that. No one ever communicated that to me in any of my high school. ... "Remember that rule we were taught in elementary school: don't take things off the teacher's desk." No. What on Earth is the point in calling it the 'teacher's desk' if you can take things off it willy-nilly!?! There is none! A teacher is above you in terms of authority. Full stop. Do you honestly think it's alright to just leaf through papers on the desk of someone who is above you in a hierarchy?? Would you leaf through documents on your Bosses table without his/her permission? I sincerely hope not. You seem to be lacking basic society etiquette. "Now that is an honor code violation - taking and altering a paper after it has been submitted without the teacher's pre-approval. It has nothing to do with respect, it is ethically unacceptable. You turned it in, saying your finished. You don't get to take it back without asking the teacher." It is not an honor code violation. The paper isn't due yet. Anyway, it's mine. I can take it back and take a 0 if I want. The "honor code" mentioned at some of my schools talked about plagiarism and cheating on tests. That's all. It is not 'ethically unacceptable'. I had thought I was finished; I'm allowed to change my mind. Not if you've handed it in! When you hand it in, you're saying "Right, OK, I've finished. Mark it in your own time". What if you hand it in and the teacher wants to mark it before the deadline? They are perfectly within their rights to do so - you've told them you're finished! If you're not quite sure, then don't hand it in - there's no harm in keeping it on your desk at home until the final deadline. As for whoes property it is, it's the schools. Don't know the system in the USA, but let me tell you about GCSE coursework in England: When you hand it in, that's it. Technically, you're not supposed ever to receive it back. Seriously - never. It's marked, moderated, possibly moderated by the exam board. Then, the school is obliged to store it securely for at least seven years, after which they can destroy it. The student is not supposed to see it once handed in ever again. Also, controversially, the school is not really supposed to tell you your marks until results day in August. I personally dislike this rule, but it stands, and shows how tight the system is. It's actually a little irrelevant to this discussion, but I strongly, strongly, more strongly than I can describe disagree that you have every right to change it after you've handed it in. My 6th grade teacher (that was the year of the pencil incident) had boxes for us to put our assignments in. Even in-class assignments. She was really weird. But that's beside the point. It was perfectly acceptable for us to take our papers out of the boxes and work on them more, as long as we got them back in the box before the collection date, which was written on the board or on the box. Now, that's different. By doing what she did, she acknowledged that she didn't mind alterations before the deadline. If she had collected them, though, it would have been different. But Corrine's and Vaughn's assignment wasn't being done in class, but it was being done at school, because they live at school. Everything is more confusing when you live at school. (That would be why I don't live in a dorm anymore. > It made me fail all my classes... not that that was the only reason.) Now, I don't know what your experiences were, but I have many friends who were dorm-students at my school, and they would very much disagree with you. Indeed, they would fight you until the cows come home that being dorm-based is beneficial. Because they are the teacher, and they are in authority. Period. School is not a democracy. If you don't understand that, well...it doesn't sound like you went to a very good school. I just wanted to reinforce this. Rilian, you seem to have totally lost this somewhere along the line, or perhaps never even had it. A teacher is not your equal. A teacher is in authority. You do what a teacher says, be it reasonable or not (except of course if it's extremely unreasonable, like "jump off that cliff" ). Would you ignore what a Policeman told you to do? Hopefully not. If not, why not a teacher?
Gah, there is so much more I want to say, but I must go now. I may return later...
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Post by {88Keys} on Sept 11, 2006 12:46:04 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't know that. I don't know if there is an actual rule in the US (more likely it varies from school to school), but generally the teachers will make every effort to get your work back to you so you can see how you did on it. I don't think they have to though. I've never heard of being able to revise it after it's turned in, unless the teacher requests it (I think in math I have been able to make corrections for partial credit before, but that was after the teacher had marked it first).
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Post by Islander on Sept 11, 2006 13:04:57 GMT -5
Well, I said technically for a reason. More often than not, school's 'turn a blind eye' to that rule, and show it to students between the end of marking it and storing it.
I actually think that that's better, because you can then see where you dropped marks, and learn from those mistakes.
That doesn't mean the rule is never adhered to - after handing it in, I never saw my Science, Maths, Geography and ICT coursework at GCSE, and my Physics coursework at A-Level again.
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Post by Gouki on Sept 11, 2006 19:19:27 GMT -5
By the sounds of it Rilian actually went to a pretty bad school.
Discuss.
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Post by Rilian on Sept 11, 2006 20:42:37 GMT -5
sodoffbaldrick
"You're absolutely right. It is wrong to steal. That's why, when smart teachers confiscate something, they don't take it off the student. Instead, the student is told to give it to them. The student can disobey, but they will be punished accordingly."
That's still stealing, because the students are given the impression that they have no choice.
And, that is not what happened to me. I have had a hall-monitor physically take something from me. On many occasions.
erika
"well if you had the least bit of respect for others, this should be a no brainer. you just don't take things off the teacher's desk, or any one's desk for that matter, even if that thing you took was yours. I mean, the least you could do is ask, or tell them, not just take."
That makes no sense.
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Post by lazerxangel on Sept 11, 2006 20:47:18 GMT -5
sodoffbaldrick "You're absolutely right. It is wrong to steal. That's why, when smart teachers confiscate something, they don't take it off the student. Instead, the student is told to give it to them. The student can disobey, but they will be punished accordingly." That's still stealing, because the students are given the impression that they have no choice. That's because they have no choice. The teachers have more authority. And, that is not what happened to me. I have had a hall-monitor physically take something from me. On many occasions. Well, the hall monitor probably just confiscated something you weren't supposed to have, such as an ipod or mp3 player. Or something like that. Unless, of course, like Gouki said, you went to a really bad school.
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Post by Rilian on Sept 11, 2006 20:47:44 GMT -5
As MC has pointed out, I did explain. If you want another explanation, though, I can give you one. When a piece of work is given to the teacher, not only does it become the property of the school, it also becomes the school's responsibility. That responsibility will, at least at first, fall on the teacher. If the work goes missing before it is returned to the student or officially passed on to be checked by another teacher, it is the teacher who will get the blame. For this reason, it is important that the teacher knows where the work is. What if a student takes a piece of their own work from the teacher's desk but doesn't own up to it when asked? What if a student takes a piece of their own work before the due date, and sneaks it back into the pile after the due date has passed but before the teacher has noticed it has gone missing from the pile in the first place? Apart from that, if students are allowed to walk up to a teacher's desk and take their work back without looking, the teacher has no way of ensuring that it actually is the student's own work that the student is taking back, and not the work of another student. I do not think that teachers should be able to do anything, but they are the people in authority. It is their job to educate their students and help them prepare for life after they leave school. Part of that means setting down rules to make things fair for everyone and keep the system running smoothly. Did anyone ever communicate the opposite? After reading what you've already said about you school, I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the case. No, it isn't, but things like that happen. Would you like teachers to take into account every little problem that a student tells them about, with no proof that said student isn't making it up? When students turn up late in the morning, not being woken up by the alarm clock is a common excuse. A teacher is under no obligation to return any of your work, as long as keeping it does not violate school policy or instructions from their superiors. You did, however, support Corrine's decision to do so. You're absolutely right. It is wrong to steal. That's why, when smart teachers confiscate something, they don't take it off the student. Instead, the student is told to give it to them. The student can disobey, but they will be punished accordingly. From the time you submit your work to the time you are given it back, it is the property of the school. I don't see the logic behind your stuff becoming property of the teacher. I have read the posts but am not making a full reply yet. I would like to address this first: "Now that is an honor code violation - taking and altering a paper after it has been submitted without the teacher's pre-approval. It has nothing to do with respect, it is ethically unacceptable. You turned it in, saying your finished. You don't get to take it back without asking the teacher." It is not an honor code violation. The paper isn't due yet. Anyway, it's mine. I can take it back and take a 0 if I want. The "honor code" mentioned at some of my schools talked about plagarism and cheating on tests. That's all. It is not 'ethically unacceptable'. I had thought I was finished; I'm allowed to change my mind. The honor code extends to other things besides plagarism and cheating. It is also a honor code violation to cite a source incorrectly (to list the wrong year of publication or page number, intentionally), to make up a source cite (usually, because you didn't use the required amount of sources that the professor wanted), to incorrectly copy a quote (changing what someone says and then giving him/her credit for it), or giving yourself an advantage over other students. However, to take a paper, without prior notification, from the teachers desk is trying to get around the due date will be looked at as cheating, and is giving ypourself an anauthorized time extension which is giving you an advantage over other students - both bring up the honor code. Maybe the honor code at George Mason University (where I attend) is a lot more strict than other places. I thought it was universally accepted among all colleges and schools. I think that's ridiculous and I would not consent to go to a school that does crap like that. But parents can force their minor children to go to school somewhere they don't want to go. Not fair.
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Post by lazerxangel on Sept 11, 2006 20:52:57 GMT -5
Erm, not trying to be rude or anything, but can you please not double post?
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Post by Rilian on Sept 11, 2006 21:13:21 GMT -5
Wow...this whole thread is just...wow...I think maybe we have a troll, albeit one with good grammar. It seems to me you came here with a post that you knew would stir up controversy and you just like to argue for arguements sake. I don't think I could even begin to respond to all this; not to mention that MirrorCard pretty much said everything I wanted to say. Just a few of things-
Rilian, you seem very intent that everything that happened to Corinne was Josie's fault, because she forgot to plug the alarm clock back in. I think part of the point the episode is trying to make (and the part you're missing) is that you can't blame other people for all your problems. Yes, what Josie did was inconsiderate. But Corinne still has to take responsibility for how she reacts to it, and how she acts during the rest of the day. You also have to understand the character of Corinne- she's very perfectionistic, and if things don't go exactly as she has planned, she can't handle it. That's what this episode was for her, a lesson in "going with the flow" as you put it. It was not right for her to blow up at Josie in the middle of a quiz and act like it is her fault that everything went wrong.
Did she say that? No. She just said "I'm suprised to see you here." It's pretty obvious if you've watched the show any at all that Corinne does not get in trouble often.
Teachers have every right to confiscate items that are causing a disturbance in their classroom. When you're in class, you have to obey the rules of the school and of the teacher's classroom. I'm stunned that you have apparently gone to school all these years without realizing that. We're you raised in California or something?
One other thing I don't think anyone else has mentioned:
Contradiction- if it's her paper, then she shouldn't have to ask Vaughn's permission.
Finally, this:
Because they are the teacher, and they are in authority. Period. School is not a democracy. If you don't understand that, well...it doesn't sound like you went to a very good school.
A) If you think the show is so stupid, why are you watching it and posting on a message board devoted to it? B) Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions, no matter what others have done to them. This has been kind of an underlying theme of the series, and that particular lesson has been in several episodes. (Genome, Technology, Conclusions). C) When does the show allow adults to treat children unfairly? Pretty much the only adults on the show are the teachers and the parents, and they are both in authority over the students. Like I said, it's not a democracy. The teachers and parents having authority and control is perfectly fair. Students and teachers are not equals. Besides that, throughout the show we've seen the teachers and Durst being pretty reasonable and fair to the students in their capacity as educators. The only big exception I can think of is Chirality, and those were kind of extenuating circumstances. And they were rectified in the end.
D)Just because someone is not polite to you doesn't mean you should automatically be rude back to them. Judging by the things you've said in your post, it doesn't sound like you went to a very good school or that you were taught much respect for authority. Not all Josie's fault. Josie's, Marshal's, Lucas's, Z's, Durst's, everyone who was unfair to her. "with this murderous look in her eyes" That's the part that makes me think she thinks Corrine has suddenly turned bad. Teachers don't have a right to take your stuff. They have a right to make you either put the thing away or leave the classroom. But, because they are stupid, if you leave the classroom, you have to go to the principal's office. You get in trouble. Stupid. Yeah, well, I meant that it was their paper, hers and Vaughn's, but definitely not the school's paper. "they are the teacher, and they are in authority. Period." No... Children are force by their parents to go to school. You know that idea about the government getting its power from the governed? It's always true. I'm choosing to go to college, but I didn't choose to go to any school before that. People only have authority over me if I give it to them, and I can take it back any time I want. A. It's a cute show, even though it has stupid aspects. B. If someone keeps treating you like crap, you have to call them on it. If someone shoots you, you don't even have to wait for them to do it again before getting them back for it or making it so they can't do it again. BTW, USA 'justice' system is based on revenge. C. You think the fact that they are teachers means they can treat the students in a manner which would otherwise be unfair and it's not. K, I think that's wrong. The students should have a say. In fact, they should have the only say. When they don't, you might as well call them slaves (property). Just because someone is only a little unjust doesn't mean we can let it go. Wrong is wrong. (And obviously we disagree on whether certain things are right or wrong. This isn't a very good method of sorting that out.) D. Hehehahahaha!! I respect REAL authority. Real authority is being knowledgeable in a subject. No one is more knowledgeable about me than myself. And I don't respect anyone who wants to take my stuff or my freedom. Yeah, I was going to ask that too. Because it rocks. Yes, I did. ^_^ Also, I did mean to say that the whole show is filled with stupid moral lessons that I don't agree with. And it's right that I just feel really strongly about this. I think they are sending bad messages to kids. What's the point in feeling something if you don't feel it strongly. Also, I made this post on an entertainment discussion forum, and no one responded, so I looked for a Strange Days at Blake Holsey High forum to post it on. Of course I was hoping for someone to say, "Hey, I thought that, too!" or "Yeah, you're right," or "That's wrong and here's why," but all I got was, "That's wrong." The type of explanations people gave for why they thought it was wrong weren't really explanations because the explanations require explanations (like saying god created the universe, and neglecting to explain what created god). I was hoping this forum would not have that problem... or at least less of it than the one I posted in before.
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Post by {88Keys} on Sept 11, 2006 21:27:00 GMT -5
Rilian- it is not necessary to respond to each person individually. You can respond to each persons comments in one post. It is also not necessary to quote a person's entire post in order to respond to one thing. Try cutting out the stuff you're not replying to.
Parents having authority over their kids is perfectly fair. Besides, it's not always the parents forcing the kids to go to a school they don't want to. It is the government as well.
What "problem" is that? I think what you really mean is you hoped this forum would have more people who agreed with you. No one here has just said" that's wrong. Everyone has posted numerous reasons backing up their agruments, and have presented them in a clear and concise manner.
Tell that to the judge. I'm sorry, but that statement is such a joke. If no one has authority over anyone else, the whole social system breaks down and there is no law and order. But you probably wouldn't care about that, as you seem to care only about your own "freedom" (ie getting to do whatever you want whenever you want). Just try telling the police officer who pulls you over for speeding "I'm sorry, but I chose not to give you authority over me." See what happens then.
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Post by Rilian on Sept 11, 2006 21:46:19 GMT -5
Wow. Where did this thread spring up from? It's yonks since we've had such vast walls of text in one thread . Anywho, there are a few points I want to make. I'd like to make more, but I haven't got the time... Firstly, I'd agree with 88Keys - people, this looks like a troll to me. Actually, not quite a troll, because he/she certainly has a good grasp of English. Maybe more of a gnome... Onto quotes: In my classes in high-school, people were rarely late. When they were, the teachers usually didn't say anything. If they did say anything, it would be to ask if they were ok. That's the kind of reaction I think would be appropriate from Z to Corrine. Well, then I'm sorry, but your school is appalling. What, pray tell, is the point in deadlines if there are no consequences for overshooting them? Yeah, sure, there will sometimes be reasons when it's unavoidable, and then (so long as you usually so stick to the deadlines) I'd certainly expect a teacher to be understanding, but on the whole, there should be zero-tolerance. I mean heck, to be quite frank, I'd put most, if not all, problems in schools down to a lack of zero-tolerance. What on Earth is the point in calling it the 'teacher's desk' if you can take things off it willy-nilly!?! There is none! A teacher is above you in terms of authority. Full stop. Do you honestly think it's alright to just leaf through papers on the desk of someone who is above you in a hierarchy?? Would you leaf through documents on your Bosses table without his/her permission? I sincerely hope not. You seem to be lacking basic society etiquette. Not if you've handed it in! When you hand it in, you're saying "Right, OK, I've finished. Mark it in your own time". What if you hand it in and the teacher wants to mark it before the deadline? They are perfectly within their rights to do so - you've told them you're finished! If you're not quite sure, then don't hand it in - there's no harm in keeping it on your desk at home until the final deadline. As for whoes property it is, it's the schools. Don't know the system in the USA, but let me tell you about GCSE coursework in England: When you hand it in, that's it. Technically, you're not supposed ever to receive it back. Seriously - never. It's marked, moderated, possibly moderated by the exam board. Then, the school is obliged to store it securely for at least seven years, after which they can destroy it. The student is not supposed to see it once handed in ever again. Also, controversially, the school is not really supposed to tell you your marks until results day in August. I personally dislike this rule, but it stands, and shows how tight the system is. It's actually a little irrelevant to this discussion, but I strongly, strongly, more strongly than I can describe disagree that you have every right to change it after you've handed it in. Now, that's different. By doing what she did, she acknowledged that she didn't mind alterations before the deadline. If she had collected them, though, it would have been different. Now, I don't know what your experiences were, but I have many friends who were dorm-students at my school, and they would very much disagree with you. Indeed, they would fight you until the cows come home that being dorm-based is beneficial. Because they are the teacher, and they are in authority. Period. School is not a democracy. If you don't understand that, well...it doesn't sound like you went to a very good school. I just wanted to reinforce this. Rilian, you seem to have totally lost this somewhere along the line, or perhaps never even had it. A teacher is not your equal. A teacher is in authority. You do what a teacher says, be it reasonable or not (except of course if it's extremely unreasonable, like "jump off that cliff" ). Would you ignore what a Policeman told you to do? Hopefully not. If not, why not a teacher?
Gah, there is so much more I want to say, but I must go now. I may return later... The point is that in my high school classes, people were only late when they had a good reason, and the teachers knew that. The only thing there should be zero-tolerance is harrassment. The teacher is not above me in authority. He is contributing to my enslavement (assuming I am a minor). Is above me in hierarchy? I don't give any credence to such crap. Going through a boss's papers is not an accurate analogy. When taking tests, some students are extremely insecure about their answers. They might turn the test in and then have a surge of fear that they did #9 wrong. They should be allowed to check it, to assuage their fears. The only reason I do what die Polizei says is because they have guns. That's not respect, that's fearing for my life. By the sounds of it Rilian actually went to a pretty bad school. Discuss. And which school are you refering to? I've gone 9; 12, if you count college. sodoffbaldrick "You're absolutely right. It is wrong to steal. That's why, when smart teachers confiscate something, they don't take it off the student. Instead, the student is told to give it to them. The student can disobey, but they will be punished accordingly." That's still stealing, because the students are given the impression that they have no choice. That's because they have no choice. The teachers have more authority. And, that is not what happened to me. I have had a hall-monitor physically take something from me. On many occasions. Well, the hall monitor probably just confiscated something you weren't supposed to have, such as an ipod or mp3 player. Or something like that. Unless, of course, like Gouki said, you went to a really bad school. sodoffbaldrick said they do have a choice. And I was responding to what he said. And the truth is they do have a choice. You can't take away the natural freedom that every living thing has. And physically detaining them or threatening them with a weapon is WRONG. The hall-monitor did not confiscate. He stole. I never got it back. It was a bottle of coke that I had bought from a coke machine in a hallway in the school. On another occasion, it was a package of cookies. It was always food. I don't know what they have against food. I wasn't eating it; I was just carrying it to my locker, to save for later. Sheesh. Erm, not trying to be rude or anything, but can you please not double post? What's double post?
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Post by Menack on Sept 11, 2006 22:03:44 GMT -5
What I've learned from this thread: - You should blame others for the bad things that happen to you.
- Yelling at someone is not only accepted, but encouraged, even more so if you do it at the same moment, instead of waiting some time to cool down and think things thoroughly (doing so is totally uncool).
- Students have great authority in their school. More so than teachers. Maybe even more than hall-monitors. I guess they're head to head with the Director.
- On the same note, you can take things from you teacher's desk freely, since the desk is school property and you own the school. Well, almost.
- Rilian's school should be an example to every school in America. Heck, to every school in the world.
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Post by {88Keys} on Sept 11, 2006 22:08:26 GMT -5
So it is wrong to put people in jail when they break the law? It's wrong to lock people up when they are a danger to others? Freedom is not "I will do whatever I want whenever I want and no one can ever tell me what to do." And freedom is not an absolute right. It is somewhat of a privlege. You break the law and get caught, you forfeit freedom.
Menack- you forgot "No one should ever have more authority than anyone else, and no one's freedom should ever be taken away." However, all the things you've mentioned were really only in Rilian's posts, and not in the entire thread.
READ....THE...FAQ!!!!
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Post by Rilian on Sept 11, 2006 22:19:00 GMT -5
Rilian- it is not necessary to respond to each person individually. You can respond to each persons comments in one post. It is also not necessary to quote a person's entire post in order to respond to one thing. Try cutting out the stuff you're not replying to.
Parents having authority over their kids is perfectly fair. Besides, it's not always the parents forcing the kids to go to a school they don't want to. It is the government as well.
What "problem" is that? I think what you really mean is you hoped this forum would have more people who agreed with you. No one here has just said" that's wrong. Everyone has posted numerous reasons backing up their agruments, and have presented them in a clear and concise manner.
Tell that to the judge. I'm sorry, but that statement is such a joke. If no one has authority over anyone else, the whole social system breaks down and there is no law and order. But you probably wouldn't care about that, as you seem to care only about your own "freedom" (ie getting to do whatever you want whenever you want). Just try telling the police officer who pulls you over for speeding "I'm sorry, but I chose not to give you authority over me." See what happens then. It's not the government, because parents have the option of home-schooling, which is what I did for the last 2 years of high school. Home-schooling is free. You quote something and respond to it, ignoring the things I said around it. No one has provided any ultimate explanations. That's the problem. If you are right, then you should be able to provide an ultimate explanation and I will change my beliefs accordingly. That happens very rarely, because most people don't really know why they believe what they believe. I am probably included in that. I wish the discussion forum could be a place where we could figure things out together, instead of just repeating the same things over and over. As I said before, the government gets consent from the governed. There's also social contract. That's all that's necessary. What you are talking about it fascism or totalitarianism. I think those things are bad. Don't you? I am talking about what's actually right, and you're talking about what we have to do in practice, because die Polizei hat guns.Um, also, this posting thing confuses me and I don't understand how to modify quotes and stuff. What I've learned from this thread: - You should blame others for the bad things that happen to you.
- Yelling at someone is not only accepted, but encouraged, even more so if you do it at the same moment, instead of waiting some time to cool down and think things thoroughly (doing so is totally uncool).
- Students have great authority in their school. More so than teachers. Maybe even more than hall-monitors. I guess they're head to head with the Director.
- On the same note, you can take things from you teacher's desk freely, since the desk is school property and you own the school. Well, almost.
- Rilian's school should be an example to every school in America. Heck, to every school in the world.
It's not that students have authority in school; it's that they have authority over themselves and their property and the teachers don't. In practice they do, but they don't really and they shouldn't. *You should blame other for bad things they do to you.* So it is wrong to put people in jail when they break the law? It's wrong to lock people up when they are a danger to others? Freedom is not "I will do whatever I want whenever I want and no one can ever tell me what to do." And freedom is not an absolute right. It is somewhat of a privlege. You break the law and get caught, you forfeit freedom.
I can't have an opinion on that because I think the type of laws we have needs to change. Well, really I think the whole society needs to change. It's explained in Ishmael and My Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. Ok, I read about double posting. The other forum I was on didn't have a rule about that, so it didn't occur to me. And I didn't think I needed to read the FAQ unless I had a question, but I didn't have the question, so...
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Post by {88Keys} on Sept 11, 2006 22:33:57 GMT -5
To an extent, yes. That's how democracy works (or is supposed to work). The governed don't like something, they vote for change. But majority rules, and if there is a law you don't like, you still have to obey it.
It really p*sses me off when people throw around words like "fascisim" without knowing what they mean. In layman's terms, Fascisim and Totalitarian regimes believe that the state should have control over all aspects of life, and that the people have no say. The state (or government) as a whole is superior to the individual, and the state's needs outweigh the individuals needs. Freedom and deomcracy are just the opposite of that. But once again, you don't seem to understand that freedom doesn't mean the right to do whatever you want with no regard for others, or that a society should have no authoritative system. What you propose is not freedom, it's anarchy. Maybe you should take a social science class?
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