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Post by MirrorCard on Jun 17, 2005 3:05:06 GMT -5
stupid? moronic? imbecilic? That's kind of harsh. Dumb isn't brain impaired to that extent. Dumb is just dense, dim, not as bright as normal.Thing is, you're using the denotation of the word when I think we're leaning to the connotative. [color=ff99ffThat seems to be more descriptive of Stew anyway. And I was talking about Vaughn's dyslexia makes him functionally challenged, without it he's not. [/color][/quote] I don't believe so. I think Vaughn really is "special," but the dyslexia further hinders him. Teachers talk too. It isn't just reading from the board. sadly (because he is so funny), Stew does qualify. PC? what? Mac, remember, I've fallen out of the loop on current slang *sighs*. my hip hurts. I wonder what I did to it *thinks*.
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Post by Mac on Jun 17, 2005 3:33:10 GMT -5
pc means politically correct speach. like calling someone who's blind "seeing impared" I know why your hip hurts, MC. It's because you're an old man stuck in a 17 year old's body.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Jun 17, 2005 16:54:45 GMT -5
I know, I wasnt saying that about Vaugh. I was jointly replying to both you and MC, as well as any over-PC person around. And now, I wasnt calling either you or MC over-PC. I don't have much use for PC either. It's just that particular PC term seems to fit Vaughn better than anything else. Because we saw in both Brainwaves and Transference that when Vaughn doesn't have his little problem, he can actually be quite smart, even Marshall was impressed.Thing is, you're using the denotation of the word when I think we're leaning to the connotative. No, actually I was talking about the categories and classifications of lower intelligence.[quote author=mirrorcard board=robert thread=1118309245 post=1118995506 I don't believe so. I think Vaughn really is "special," but the dyslexia further hinders him. Teachers talk too. It isn't just reading from the board. sadly (because he is so funny), Stew does qualify. Special? As in special education or you think he's sweet & adorable? He's so special...*hehe* See what I said above, without his "problem" he can hold his own with rest of them. Yeah, Stew. *nods* Did you hear Durst has a book defining the levels and it has Stew's pic next to that one? *lol*my hip hurts. I wonder what I did to it *thinks*. Poor baby. See it pays to pay attention. *nods*
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Post by MirrorCard on Jun 18, 2005 3:15:26 GMT -5
I don't believe so. I think Vaughn really is "special," but the dyslexia further hinders him. Teachers talk too. It isn't just reading from the board. Special? As in special education or you think he's sweet & adorable? He's so special...*hehe* See what I said above, without his "problem" he can hold his own with rest of them.yes, without the dyslexia, he still wouldn't be able to grasp the ideas as fast as the others.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Jun 18, 2005 12:55:04 GMT -5
yes, without the dyslexia, he still wouldn't be able to grasp the ideas as fast as the others. And I still don't comprehend how you get that and arrive at that conclusion. Vaughn's not dumb nor slow nor less inclined. How can someone who can read an entire room's books in one day be dumb? Even Lucas was impressed, and it takes a lot to impress Lucas especially with Vaughn. But I guess we're not going to agree on this. But think about this: if Josie thought for a second that Vaughn was truly dumb, would she even give him the time of day? Remember, she needs intellectual stimulation otherwise she becomes bored.
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jellybean12
Junior Member
"I want to be your stranger across a crowded room." L.K. Archer
Posts: 63
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Post by jellybean12 on Jun 18, 2005 13:07:10 GMT -5
In hemispheres, Corrine talked about the different halves of the brain and that people who use one side or another are good at different things. Maybe Vaughn just hasn't found what he could be good at without his dislexia.
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Post by HailStorm on Jun 18, 2005 16:00:57 GMT -5
I'm slightly uncomfortable with the idea that Vaughn's dyslexia makes him slower than the others in thinking and grasping ideas (eg. he's portrayed as a bit slow, 'a few pages behind' etc. in most episodes but not in Brainwaves or Transference). I have a cousin who's dyslexic. She studies Physics in Oxford and can probably run rings around me in terms of speed of thought and general cognitive ability. Hmmm I don't think it's just the dyslexia, I think it's partially habit and attitude. In Brainwaves and Transference, he felt a change occuring and that made him think he could do more - he could probably work just as well and be just as sharp mormally if he thought he could - dyslexia does hamper reading and spelling but not general cognitive ability. Ergo I put forward the theory that Vaugh's problem is due in part to labelling theory and self-fulfilling prophesy.
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Post by {88Keys} on Jun 18, 2005 22:15:34 GMT -5
I'm slightly uncomfortable with the idea that Vaughn's dyslexia makes him slower than the others in thinking and grasping ideas (eg. he's portrayed as a bit slow, 'a few pages behind' etc. in most episodes but not in Brainwaves or Transference). I don't think it is the dyslexia that makes him slower than the others. Let's also keep in mind that the others (i.e. the other members of the Science Club) are exceptional students, as far as we know. Even if Vaughn isn't quite as quick as they are, that does not make him "dumb" by any means. Besides, a person can be not-great at school work, but really good at other things. like the have mechanical ability or people skills or just plain ol' common sense. It doesn't necessarily mean they're "dumb."
the original question was "is Vaughn the stereo-typical dumb jock?" I think Stu would fit this description much better than Vaughn. Vaughn is smart, but he has trouble reading. He doesn't always try as hard as he could either (although that seemed to change as the show went on, with positive results). I concur!
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Post by AuenDestiny on Jun 18, 2005 22:22:08 GMT -5
I wish they'd had never given Vaughn dyslexia. It detracts from Vaughn's storyline. And they've taken it nowhere. Unless they were planning on using it somehow in Season 4, it has been totally unnecessary. I would have preferred that it was an aspect of himself that Vaughn had not yet explored until he joined the Science Club, and realized that he enjoyed science and actually being smart instead of just doing enough to get by, that because of the Science Club he found the side of himself very much like young Victor, and he is a reflection of his father. They kind of touched on this in Storm, when Vaughn actually realized he enjoyed himself being part of the Science Club and felt he could belong with them, but then it simply fell away, could have had so much promise had they continued the storyline.
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Post by MirrorCard on Jun 19, 2005 1:11:47 GMT -5
Ergo I put forward the theory that Vaugh's problem is due in part to labelling theory and self-fulfilling prophesy. I think it's more of his social life. When he joined the science club and had that influence on him, his grades picked up (in science). I guess that could go with the labelling theory. I don't know about the self-fulfilling prophesy. His father is really smart and owns his own business. Shouldn't the prophesy be that Vaughn would be smart too?
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Post by Mac on Jun 19, 2005 2:30:03 GMT -5
But think about this: if Josie thought for a second that Vaughn was truly dumb, would she even give him the time of day? Remember, she needs intellectual stimulation otherwise she becomes bored. [/color][/quote] or maybe she's attracted to him because of his looks, just like everyone else. I wish they'd had never given Vaughn dyslexia. It detracts from Vaughn's storyline. And they've taken it nowhere. Unless they were planning on using it somehow in Season 4, it has been totally unnecessary. It adds to his character, makes him more than "the conflicted son of the villain". Would you like them to have an episode where they magical cure a problem that affects many kids, some who probably watch this show? I don't think it's just the dyslexia, I think it's partially habit and attitude. Ergo I put forward the theory that Vaugh's problem is due in part to labelling theory and self-fulfilling prophesy. He thinks he's dumb, therefore he doesnt do so well. Probably the case. Just gotta put your mind to it often.
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Post by HailStorm on Jun 19, 2005 6:18:00 GMT -5
Mac got it. What I'd say is that Vaughn, being brought up by Victor was expected to be very sharp and on the ball but failed to live up to that because his reading was below average. Victor and probably his primary teachers thought 'he's below average, a bit slow' and thus labelled him as 'a bit dim' Because they thought of him like that, they treated him like he was dumb. He's not an inanimate object so he sensed that they thought he was dumb and ended up beleiving it and so acting like it (eg. not trying to his full capacity in class, concentratin more on athletics, not thinking as sharply as he's capable) aand the prophesy of 'Vaughn is dumb' was fulfilled. But he's not dumb, he's show himself to be capable of quick thinking and common sense even when not under some spooky influence (eg. Transference). And because he's not as book-smart and accademically excelent as the science club, he thinks in a different way to them sometimes meaning he can sometimes see things they can't which is pretty useful sometimes (eg. in Thursday it was Vaughn who basicly figured out the problem, allowing Corrine to save herself)
I guess there is some element of the sterotypical 'dumb jock' about him though as people stil think of him as dumb and it's how he appears in the first few episodes, at least. There's probably a purpose to it though. I think Vaughn may appear at bit slow sometimes to prevent him from being 'perfect'. Just imagine how smug and irritating he would seem if he was the most lusted after boy in school, the most popular, the star athlete, rich, talented, sucessful AND super-intelligent too. The dyslexia and the 'less smart' image adds another limiting factor to 'he's conflicted with father issues' - it leads him to struggle to be taken seriously as well as struggles to be trusted (and trustworthy). And in terms of shipping (I don't care what you say, it does have some sinificance) it makes Lucas more of a viable rival - not by much, but it does make Lucas's chances slightly less absurd - if Vaughn had everything Lucas (sharp mind, reputation of intelligence) had plus his own benefits and fewer flaws, the idea of Lucas posing any kind of threat to the J/V relationship wouldn't be even remotely significant. Even J/L shippers would think "Geeze, why would he even try?!"
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jellybean12
Junior Member
"I want to be your stranger across a crowded room." L.K. Archer
Posts: 63
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Post by jellybean12 on Jun 19, 2005 11:10:45 GMT -5
it also may be everyone's expectations of him. Since they see him as a "jock" and not a "brain", they've adapted to have low expectations of him, and in turn, he has low expectations of himself.
An experiment was done in a school where somebody took two students (one bright, one not-so-bright as he was labeled), and switched thier report cards, meaning the smart one got the other's and vice-versa. Because of this mindset, the teachers treated the smart child as if he could do nothing, seting the bar very low. In turn, when the other child was sent to school with the smart review, the teacher set the expectations high, and the child flourished. This may have been what happened to Vaughn.
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Post by MirrorCard on Jun 19, 2005 12:11:47 GMT -5
I don't think it's just the dyslexia, I think it's partially habit and attitude. Ergo I put forward the theory that Vaugh's problem is due in part to labelling theory and self-fulfilling prophesy. He thinks he's dumb, therefore he doesnt do so well. Probably the case. Just gotta put your mind to it often. It looks as if Mac has been tormented by too many Vaughn-types it also may be everyone's expectations of him. Since they see him as a "jock" and not a "brain", they've adapted to have low expectations of him, and in turn, he has low expectations of himself. An experiment was done in a school where somebody took two students (one bright, one not-so-bright as he was labeled), and switched thier report cards, meaning the smart one got the other's and vice-versa. Because of this mindset, the teachers treated the smart child as if he could do nothing, seting the bar very low. In turn, when the other child was sent to school with the smart review, the teacher set the expectations high, and the child flourished. This may have been what happened to Vaughn. An amusing thing if that's what happened to Lucas and Vaughn, because of how much plot twists seem to put them together (like in Brainwaves). But it'd be a shallow plot twist, I think.
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Post by Mac on Jun 19, 2005 21:25:29 GMT -5
He thinks he's dumb, therefore he doesnt do so well. Probably the case. Just gotta put your mind to it often. It looks as if Mac has been tormented by too many Vaughn-types I'd just make a great child psychologist. I give great advice. Feel free to ask me anything.
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