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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 18, 2005 20:34:07 GMT -5
Since when does Victor have "forces"? He's got some interns. And he doesnt seem to be very malicious, just shady. If anything, he's running from Sarah. so the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" could be Sarah and Vaughn? and Middleton did say "not just Victor" when Lucas asked "Victor?" as to who Middleton was speaking about. could be Avenir and his 'offspring'. I don't see it being the Janitor though.
so, what are the 3 sides?
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Post by Mac on Apr 18, 2005 22:35:35 GMT -5
Since when does Sarah have to be teamed up with either Victor or Aveneir. She could be heading up (or just part of) a third group. And dont forget who Kelly is working for.
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Post by MirrorCard on Apr 18, 2005 23:25:19 GMT -5
so the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" could be Sarah and Vaughn? and Middleton did say "not just Victor" when Lucas asked "Victor?" as to who Middleton was speaking about. could be Avenir and his 'offspring'. I don't see it being the Janitor though. It can't be Sarah because... ... Sarah is not Victor's daughter (how highly soap opera-ish). The only way Middleton could mean Avenir is if Victor is a descendant of Avenir.
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Post by Mac on Apr 18, 2005 23:37:04 GMT -5
Sarah is more likelly to be the decendant of Aveneir, but Josie is likelier.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 19, 2005 11:34:44 GMT -5
It can't be Sarah because... ... Sarah is not Victor's daughter (how highly soap opera-ish). The only way Middleton could mean Avenir is if Victor is a descendant of Avenir. *looks at you* *you really do need sleep, you've become loopy* Sarah is Vaughn's mom. As in Sarah being the tree and Vaughn being the apple! Apple/Tree analogy doesn't just apply to son/father. Can be son/mother, daughter/mother, or daughter/father too. *sheesh* *stop jumping to conclusions that are wrong and never stated*and anyway, Middleton said "not just Victor." when Lucas asked if he was talking about Victor to be careful of. and then Middleton said "remember, my boy, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree." well, when Middleton said that, he knew nothing about Josie. has anyone thought of that? the apple wouldn't be Josie, unless Middleton already knew about things from the future. so that basically leaves in apple/tree configuration: Vaughn/Sarah, Vaughn/Victor, ?/Avenir, Sarah/Avenir, or some apple/tree we don't know yet.yes, I could see Sarah breaking away from whoever she was aligned with and heading her own group. and at the same time Kelly could be associated with a fourth group. with something that encompassing, many groups should be after obtaining the technology and knowledge. and I still say there's much more going on than any of us realize. if everything is ever finally revealed it's going to be mind-boggling.
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Post by MirrorCard on Apr 19, 2005 20:34:46 GMT -5
*looks at you* *you really do need sleep, you've become loopy* Sarah is Vaughn's mom. As in Sarah being the tree and Vaughn being the apple! Apple/Tree analogy doesn't just apply to son/father. Can be son/mother, daughter/mother, or daughter/father too. *sheesh* *stop jumping to conclusions that are wrong and never stated* They were not talking about Sarah, they were talking about Victor. The analogy applies to Victor, not Sarah. also, stars represent/accentuate actions and sounds. bolds, italics, and underlines accentuate what is being said.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 19, 2005 20:52:38 GMT -5
They were not talking about Sarah, they were talking about Victor. The analogy applies to Victor, not Sarah. and Middleton said "not just Victor." so show me where it says it only applies to Victor. that Victor was the only one Middleton was referring to as the tree.
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Post by MirrorCard on Apr 19, 2005 21:11:34 GMT -5
and Middleton said "not just Victor." so show me where it says it only applies to Victor. that Victor was the only one Middleton was referring to as the tree. "Not just Victor" would reference whoever is being implied by "The apple never falls far from the tree." Therefore, it is Victor and another, Vaughn - Victor is not acting alone. Or, if you are really looking to push it, you could say Victor is a descendant of Mr. Avenir (though there is no evidence) and that Victor is the apple that isn't falling far from Mr. Avenir, the tree. Vaughn was not directly the target of the conversation. The conversation was about Victor.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 19, 2005 21:27:12 GMT -5
"Not just Victor" would reference whoever is being implied by "The apple never falls far from the tree." Therefore, it is Victor and another, Vaughn - Victor is not acting alone. Or, if you are really looking to push it, you could say Victor is a descendant of Mr. Avenir (though there is no evidence) and that Victor is the apple that isn't falling far from Mr. Avenir, the tree. Vaughn was not directly the target of the conversation. The conversation was about Victor. well, I'm still not convinced it's Victor. the conversation wasn't about Victor until Lucas had to interject Victor's name when Middleton told Lucas he and his friends needed to be careful. and Lucas said "of who Victor?". Lucas was kind of leading the witness. he should have allowed Middleton to tell on his own who he was speaking of. Lucas should have asked "who do you mean?".
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Post by MirrorCard on Apr 19, 2005 21:41:23 GMT -5
well, I'm still not convinced it's Victor. the conversation wasn't about Victor until Lucas had to interject Victor's name when Middleton told Lucas he and his friends needed to be careful. and Lucas said "of who Victor?". Lucas was kind of leading the witness. he should have allowed Middleton to tell on his own who he was speaking of. Lucas should have asked "who do you mean?". You are going to have so much trouble understanding the "self-referencing" rule *sighs*
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 20, 2005 11:50:32 GMT -5
You are going to have so much trouble understanding the "self-referencing" rule *sighs* yeah, that's real funny, expert! *humph* anyway, back to the topic... Lucas saying Victor just seems to be Lucas's paranoid need to blame Victor and Vaughn.and basically my problem with believing Middleton was actually speaking about Victor is: Middleton is saying Victor is bad, if it is in fact Victor he spoke of, and Middleton acts all paranoid. while, the Janitor and Josie2 say Victor is good and he's supposed to have the Floaty Ball. so that's a contradiction. and one of them, either Middleton or Janitor/Josie2, must be lying, since that suggests they're on different sides. either Janitor/Josie2 are correct and Victor is good or Middleton is correct and Victor is bad. can't be both. unless each side believes they're the good side and the other is the bad side. another one of those perspective predicaments.and did you notice Josie2 always says Victor is supposed to have the Floaty Ball, only Victor, never Sarah, Josie, Vaughn, Avenir, nor anyone else?and I wonder if Middleton knew/knows about the Floaty Ball and Josie.and another point, if it's actually Vaughn that Middleton is saying is bad with the apple/tree analogy, and Victor is actually good as the Janitor and Josie2 say, then the bad "tree" Vaughn comes from would be Sarah. since saying bad apple Vaughn comes from good tree Victor wouldn't be logical, whereas bad apple Vaughn comes from bad tree Sarah would be logical.okay, this is getting dicey.
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Post by Mac on Apr 20, 2005 19:37:31 GMT -5
Middleton may be misinformed. He may have been told Victor is bad and is after him, when he really isnt.
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Post by AuenDestiny on Apr 20, 2005 20:38:46 GMT -5
Middleton may be misinformed. He may have been told Victor is bad and is after him, when he really isnt. who would have told this to Middleton? why would they want Middleton to be paranoid like Lucas to the nth degree? why would they give Middleton a Tesseract device in his 'condition'? why was a Tesseract device left hidden in the Science Office for Lucas to find? someone's been lacking in their attention to detail and he wears glasses just like Middleton .
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Post by HailStorm on Apr 21, 2005 4:39:57 GMT -5
The way I understand it is that no side is intrinscly 'bad' as such but as there are two sides that are not working together, probably working against each other, whichever side a person is on, they will automatically say that the other side is bad, is evil, is out to get them. Basicly it's saying "I am right, you are wrong" and demonising the enemy - much like what happens during war in order to get one group of ordinary blokes to slaughter another group of ordinary blokes. Since Middleton is deffinitely not on the side of Victor, he is most likely on the opposition which is most likely Avenir. (seeing as he knows all about the joye of tesseracts and has made them his life's work, knows and can use the tesseract device, he's got to be working for somebody). Ergo, it's perfectly logical that he says Victor is not to be trusted, anybody involved with Victor (Sarah, Vaughn et al) is not to be trusted and he's probably right in thinking that Victor's side has ways of detecting huge surges of energy and is on route to check things out an/or haul him in for questioning. Basicly, Lucas has just blown his cover and he's skeedadling before he gets caught. The fact that the Janitor and Josie2 say that Victor is good means that they are probably working on the same side as him. I don't know where the idea that Middleton ever worked for/with the Janitor or Josie2 came from - it has never been sugested anywhere in the show or by any stretch of logic I can see. They're on opposite sides and would probably both see the other as bad and not to be trusted. So all in all, Middleton told Lucas to be careful of Victor and Vaughn (and yes, it probably was Vaughn) because he either wants the kids to stay out of it completely or to bias Lucas towards his side with the hope of drawing him and possibly the rest of the science club to work for the side he perceives to be good. As for there being 3 sides at play: there is, sort of. There's the side of Sarah, Victor, the Janitor and Josie2. There's the side of Avenir, Middleton, probably Kelly and now Tyler. And there's the side of the science club, stuck in the middle trying to find otu what on earth is happening. They may later join one side or the other or they my try to stop the whole lot. Mind you, there may indeed be another side at play - Kelly may not be working for Avenir at all. Until Avenir was introduced, I guessed from her 'You're up to someting, Victor and I plan to stop it' speech that she was working for some sort of secret government agency which may be trying to stop all the crazy wormhole-related shenanigans. Also from that speech, it must be said: you can deffinitely see where Josie gets it from, can't you?
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Post by Mac on Apr 21, 2005 14:21:52 GMT -5
I dont think Kelly or Middleton really know what they're mixed up in. Middleton was probably a crazy professor in a university who got fired for his craziness, where he became a science teacher. He came in contact with the wormhole, realized it played into his research on tesseracts, and accidently discovered the tesseract device in the science office (possibly left there on purpose by the Janitor). He probably realizes that Victor is behind the wormhole, but doesnt really know whats going on. He just assumed Victor was bad and after him. Kelly probably realized from her work in Pearadyne that bad things would happen because of the wormhole, so she wants to prevent the wormhole from coming back into existance. But she probably assumes Victor is behind it, not Sarah. Both are probably very misinformed. Maybe on purpose by the Janitor, who's boss seems to be in charge of the tesseract device.
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